NBA Champion Tom Thibodeau on Charles Edward Hayes Jr.

The Rockets staff, including Thibodeau from last year, have all the "precise numbers" and have watched and analyzed his game tape more than you ever will. They all say he is a great defender. Even some scouts for other teams (e.g. Rudy T) have said it.

Don't act like its just a handful of people on this board that think it.

 

JVG has said a number of times while he was a coach here that Chuck was our best one-on-one post defender. Do you really think he would he say that if Chuck was ineffective against quality PFs?

It's not black and white. Obviously, Chuck has a size disadvantage against every opponent, and sometimes that hurts him. But, in general, he's able to make up for it with his strength, quickness, and smarts.

 

chuck hayes gets abused by "better pf" on the defensive end? against the likes of duncan or amare, maybe. but who doesn't? for the MAJORITY of the time he's played, how often he gets "abused"?

 

Dorsey hasn't played one minute yet on an NBA court. He hasn't proven anything. Right now he doesn't deserve anything handed to him.

 

Average as far as a starter, or one who gets significant minutes goes. There are only 30 starting PF's in the league. Even if you ignored salaries, we couldn't trade either Scola or Landry for one of these dudes:

Starters
KG
Bosh
Z.Randolph (he really isn't a center)
Sheed
McDyess (he really isn't a center)
J.Oneal (he really isn't a center)
T.Murphy
Gooden
Hedo
Jamison
J.Smith
Al Horford
Okafor (he really isn't a center)
Haslem
Boozer
K-Mart
Aldridge
Al Jefferson (he really isn't a center)
Gasol (he really isn't a center)
Amare
Al Harrington
Brand
Duncan
West
Dirk

Bench Players
David Lee
Maxiell
Milsap
Nene (if healthy)

That's almost 30 dudes right there........

 

Because of how garbage our PF spot was, not because he was that good. There is also a reason why the Rockets signed a PF and drafted two more in two consecutive drafts.

 

I'm not saying Hayes isn't good for depth at the position, or that he shouldn't be on the team. I'm saying he is not all that, and if you are relying on him to start or play heave minutes then your team is in trouble (as far as contending goes).

 

The Rockets won a championship with a similar(skills wise) Chuck"y" getting significant minutes on their team....Chucky Brown.

 

Oh for crying out loud. Are we watching the same film? Did they replace yours with someone other than Chuck?

Chuck hasn't gotten "blown by for easy layups or dunks" ever that I can recall. And if anyone here is watching carefully what he does on the court its me. The only time his player might get an easy layup or dunk is if he is covering up someone else's defensive mistakes.

I am sorry but you are completely wrong about him getting beat by other PF's. The one that he does have trouble with is Tim Duncan who can turn and shoot over him. That's about it. But who doesn't have trouble with Tim Duncan. This past year when David West was doing so well he was a little bit of a handful as well. But everyone else he keeps pushing them away from the basket far enough that they have to shoot jumpers. Most of them make their mark in the paint, so if he can keep them out of it I say that's successful.

Also, I just want to say, I am not arguing that Chuck is the best player ever defensively. I am just saying that there are instances where you people overvalue offense and undervalue defense. The object of the game is for your team to out score the other team. So its just as important to stop other players from scoring as it is to score yourself. Chuck knows his job and he does it. That's all you are supposed to ask of someone. The kid is smart and can out think the guys that are bigger than him, that's all you want him to do.

In all honest, I think Dorsey is the same way. The kid won like 85% of the games he participated in through college. Much like Chuck did. There is no reason why he won't earn minutes if he can learn on the fly. I would imagine someone is going in trade, and it will probably be Chuck.

But you can bet, whatever team he ends up playing for he will earn his way there too.

/rant

 

Beside KG, who is great at hitting contested jumpers, the conclusion from coaches have been that Chuck is very good against the good PFs.

Ok hes considered very good. Havent ever seen any of them state he is great against the GOOD PF's. Still some here keep saying just that. That is what I was dissagreeing with in the first place. Some of the post in this thread like these below are what Im dissagreeing with.

And my personal favorite.

Like I said I like Chuck and think he has an important role on this team but lets not overdue it.

 

And that team also had:
- the best player in basketball, who also happened to be the games best defender
- rules in place that didn't allow teams to completely ignore Brown on offense and sit his man in Hakeem's lap all game (well, every team besides the Sonics)...this really makes Yao's offensive life tougher when Hayes is on the floor
- 4 other starters who could score and a PG that could really shoot, as opposed to our PG that can't shoot and SF that can't due much besides hit corner 3's

Bad comparison.

 

Weren't Rasheed and Rodman team cancers before they helped their teams win? Give me the talented player every day.

Even if you remove the players you bolded (and sorry, but there is no way in hell Morey would pass on giving up Scola or Landry for certain players you bolded like Haslem, Al Jefferson, Al Harrington or David Lee if you could ignore the salary increase) then that is stil 19 guys. Compared to starting 4's ours are below average.

The only thing any of us know is that Rocket's mgmt thinks Hayes is the 3rd best PF on this team. That's all that matters........

 

Chucky Brown may have been similar skill wise on defense to Chuck Hayes but Brown wasn't as inept on offense as Hayes is. I don't think our Chuck Hayes would have been getting significant minutes with Hakeem. He most likely would have been a situational player at best there too.

 

I like and respect Chuck becasue he has worked hard to get where hes at no one gave him anything. But I just don't think hes a good basketball player.

 

I agree with that statment, Chuck has worked a lot and id a pretty good defender. He is just pathetic offensivly and he has no space in the NBA, especially on team which wants to win championship.

 

PRICELESS.

 

So you will take Chuck over Randolph?