NBA Champion Tom Thibodeau on Charles Edward Hayes Jr.

Chuck Hayes is a good 3rd string hustle type role player who can come in and give you a few decent minutes of the bench defensively each game. Thats it, that is who he is. If he was one of the best defenders in the NBA he would be starting not 3rd string behind a decent above average PF (Scola) and a Rookie (Landry).

People here used to over value Kenny Thomas the same way. In fact Hayes's game is very similar to what KT's was except without the offense. In fact bring KT back and watch Hayes become 4th string and we loose nothing defensively. One of the best in the NBA, what a ridiculous statement.

 

I like Chuck but to me the bottom line is winning.

And 2 years ago, Chuck Hayes made a big difference between winning and losing, but with Landry and Scola, the team is winning more....and to me that says Chuck is not all that important to overall team's success anymore.

So, he has value as an emergency 3rd string PF......but if someone wants him in a trade, he goes.

DD

 

Is Brent Barry one of the best shooters in the NBA? Of course. Are his defensive skills among the worst in the NBA of a rotation player if he is on a good team, yes as well.

Chuck Hayes is the inverse of Brent Barry. And they both have places deep on the bench, but that doesn't mean they can't give you valuable 15MPG, and more minutes in case of injury without slipping too much because they know what they are.

The comparison to KT makes no sense. KT was never known for defense., or having a high BB IQ who knew his limitations.

 

If he is the "inverse of Brent Barry" and is so great at defense then why does he get abused by the better PF's?

 

link?

 

No, link showing that opposing PF's only shoot 40% with Chuck guarding them. You do have something to back that claim up dont you?

 

While you are there (if there is a there) look up some of the top PF's numbers while being guarded by Chuck.

 

here is your link: http://www.82games.com/0708/07HOU17C.HTM

and now just stop the senseless bashing, please.

 

No one is going to convince me this guy any good. Serviceable as a defensive backup is all he is. Why the hell would we be looking to upgrade this position "if" he was the answer?? Its like trying to tell ourselves that we got a premier PG too. These positions need to be upgraded. Chuck is not a star, not a starter, hes not good.

Its kind of like that saying "if you can't be with the one you love.... love the one your with". "Hes not Ms. Right but hes Ms. Right Now" and that is all.

He is one dimensional and 4-5 on the offensive end just doesn't cut it. Sure will be glad when we get some more news. Making this post this thread this long shows how starved we really are.

 

I don't see why there's such a big debate here on Hayes. Very nice player to have on your team for situational purposes. A minor role bench player, something like a 10th man in the rotation of a good team. He's a great player as a 3rd string PF or 5th big in the big man rotation. But not much more than that. Seems most people should be able to agree on that I would think.

 

Imprecise to be sure. These numbers mean nothing towards youre argument if you cant show who they are against. Considreing alot of those stats come agianst other teams backups it kinda dilutes the numbers wouldnt you say?

Not if you are playing against mostly backups.

The evidence is in the game film. Watch the taller PF's consistently shoot over him and the more athletic ones blow by him for easy layups or dunks. Chuck is very good at stripping the ball down low in the paint but that doesnt make you one of the top defenders in the NBA as some here are trying to say. You can throw these watered down stats out all you want but what good are they if they dont specify who he made them against. There are alot of good PF's in the NBA but for every good starter there is a backup or 2 that isnt very good. Were the majority of his minutes against starters or backups?

Im not saying Chuck doesnt have a place or role on this team. Hell I like the guy. You have to admire his hustle and the way he aproaches the game. But there is no way you can tell me he is a "GREAT DEFENDER" one of the top in the leauge. That is obsurd but its exactly what some on here are saying.

Once again he is a good hustle/defensive role player to have coming of the bench who is liability on offense.

 

Dorsey will share time between PF/C.

Hayes is a little better defender but other than that, it's Dorsey all the way (rebound/shot blocking/steal/finish around the rim).

Dorsey's FGAs are restricted in the paint for layups/dunks, which i expected his FG% will be ~65%. So, I cant see how Dorsey will be more of a drain on offense than Hayes.

Dorsey FT% is ~40%, not far off from Hayes. But Dorsey FT shooting form is better, so probably we can expect some improvements. Dorsey said he wanted to improve his FT% to .600+ in the summer.

 

Theres a big difference between college and the pros. We'll have to wait and see howhis game translates to the NBA. Hope you are right.

 

While i will not go so far as to say that Camby is a terrible defender I will say that there is a huge difference in being a good man to man defender and being a good "help" defender. Camby is a good "help" defender(when his teammate gets beat he is good at coming over and blocking/altering the shot). I believe that Chuck is a good man to man AND a good "help" defender(although with chuck its altering/taking the charge).
Also, other than steals, I believe the block shot is one of the more overrated stats. There have been plenty of big men that could block a shot but that were not good defenders. I put being a "pest" on defense and altering shots as a greater indicator of a defense.
Lastly, I agree that Chuck has a hard time scoring(he passes well however and has a knack at spacing the floor well with Yao on the court)but he has improved tremendously(IMO) at finishing around the basket.

 

Please, show me where they say that.

 

I actually came across the win score analysis between Hayes and Dorsey in college last week. I cant find the link anymore but I can tell you it's Dorsey all the way.