Nationalized Health Care

Originally posted by bamaslammer
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I'm tired of people wanting me to take responsibility for their health care by using my dollars confiscated by the govt. You wouldn't knock down my door to rob me of my money to buy your kids' health care, now would you? Well, it is no different if you use govt. as your means of plunder to make me pay for your health care.

You are already being 'robbed' to pay for it...by both existing taxes and increased fees in the heathcare system.


Mediscare and Medicaid are horrible programs, rife with corruption and cheating. Those who manage those programs have no accountability for where that money goes. My best friend from h/s worked for a mental health company as a case worker and he told me how easy it would be for the parents of his "clients," mostly the mentally r****ded or him to get the govt. to pay for non-existent treatments and care. Billions are spent a year on these two, wasteful programs with no clue where it goes.

Just a tad overstatement.

Revisions to reibursement have occurred over the years to diminish gaming of the system. Outright fraud is dealth with MOST severely, and the data mining programs that identify such are becoming ever more sophisticated. Mental health is one well recognized area of concern that's difficult to manage, but don't assume the rest of Medicare is the same.


And guys, you forget one thing.....free govt. healthcare would lead to several things:

1. waiting for vital treatments or surgery
2. more people would use it (since it is free) and it would be a boon to hypochondriacs everywhere.
3. It would destroy our economy and make our health care system a disaster. Democrats try to act like we have the worst health care system on Earth, but where do foreign leaders and other folks in power come to get treated? Not Europe but here.
The free market makes our system the best. But of course, you have to pay for it. And what's wrong with that?


You confuse single payor with nationalized care. And BTW, the system is already broken.

 

You guys misunderstand bama. The system works for him, therefore it works for everybody.

 

All I want is affordable health care / insurance. But that doesn't seem possible unless you work at the right place.

 

Are you trying to start a fight? Because it seems obvious that neither you nor bama are going to let insults like this fly.

 

Ok Cohen,

You convinced me...I want what Cohen wants.



DD

 

I'm for universal health care, but "single payer" is starting to sound better and better. Good stuff, Cohen.

 

Does this mean you'll vote for Hillary now?

 

You've got it all wrong, Green, God bless you. I've made the system work for me.
Simple as that. I tell my kids that they can do anything they want to do with their lives, if they simply set their minds to it and go.

I did and I now, I own a house, some land, three cars, a truck, , an old tractor, some ATVs, an old, but overhauled fishing boat and when my wife and I retire, we will be set. Why is that? Because I outworked everybody I ever knew of. If you outwork everyone, you will succeed. You don't need the govt. to arrange anything with your health care. It's something like car insurance or paying for a new roof or a new part for my thirty year old tractor, I just pay for it myself, as everyone should do. I have insurance, but I pay for it myself as part of my employment at the paper.

It's not about fairness, but it's about who's willing to work and who's not. For those who are not willing to work, I hope you keel over and die this instant, because you're not worth a damn. I'm sure you guys will have all sorts of excuses, all what about this situation, what about that situation....blah.....blah.....blah.
Well, let me tell you like this, you adapt and overcome. Simple as that. When you make failure not an option, you always succeed. When you make excuses for yourself on why you were not a success, you are a failure, plain and simple.

 

bama,

You driving on roads that you built? Put out your own fire when your home burns? Arrest some one who burglarizes your home and incarcerate them in your basement? Waging your own war in Afghanistan? Preparing your own nuclear deterrence over your homestead?

The government is there for more than just writing laws. There are specific services that it perform better than all others. That's a given.

So the question is whether healthcare is one of them, not whether the government has any right to tax at all.

Many hard working Americans cannot afford healthcare because their employer does not cover it. Is that 'right'? I pay almost $800 a month for my family's insurance. Can a hard working construction laborer afford that for his wife and kids?

It has little to do with 'hard work'.

 

After all of these years...I finally convinced one!

(BTW, Atkins rocks)

 

Thanks GreenVegan76.

 

I know that in Great Britain they don't have to wait a year for an MRI. They can usually get medical attention or an appointment within a few days. Furthermore if they need a procedure and the facilities in Great Britain are booked, then a trip to another European Country is paid for by the government. For instance if there is availability in Belgium, the British govt. would pay for the trip, the procedure, lodging and everything else needed.

That being said Cohen is a good salesperson for the single payer plan.

 

I had always heard that as well. That may have even been the case previously. But this past February I was at a film camp for six weeks along with a guy from GB. I asked him how long it would take, and mentioned MRI's and operations for sports type injuries. He then informed me that not only was there usually not a wait for such things but that if you needed an operation and everything was booked in Britain, they would find out where in Europe was available and pay for you to go to whichever country they found, have the operation there, and all the expenses associated with it. It was all payed for. I followed up by asking some family friends who are native Brits. They confirmed what the friend from film camp said.

The problem he said was that emmigration had been really high lately, and started depleted the system without having payed any taxes into it.

 

Cohen - thanks for the information on Single Payor healthcare. Your knowledge is well appreciated.

I just wanted to say that a free market in health care will never be socially optimal. This is a prime example of market failure resulting in suboptimal outcomes.

There are immense externalities in public health. To put that quite simply, my health is affected by my neighbors' health. My kids health is affected by the health of their classmates. There are plenty of other ways these externalities are manifested, but these examples are illustrative.

A competitive free market will not ensure that everybody spends the correct amount on healthcare. I don't think about other people's health when I decide how much to spend on my own health. If everybody is guaranteed some basic level of health, then everybody comes out better.

It's tough to determine what this basic level of health is, but there have been some attempts (Duggan, a lot of public finance literature, etc.) What's REALLY hard is getting political support for something that is agreed to be socially optimal. That's a bit discouraging.

DaDakota - I agree with you completely that we should ensure education and health care.

Call me naive, but if our education and healthcare were improved, especially for the under 5 crowd, I think there would be marked improvements in all sorts of social areas that would far exceed the cost. The returns to preschool education and nutrition are staggering. I really hope these kinds of programs get more widespread implementation.

 

Good points, Vik. I hadn't fully considered the "inter-connectivity" of social health and education. Well said.

 

Bush underfunded his "Leave No Child Behind Act" by $9 Billion

in other news, Halliburton posts $25 million profit in 2nd Quarter after having $550 milion in loses last year before the war