National Counsel for Bush Campaign Resigns

There was a picture that was original used by the Kerry Campaign that was of ALL members of the Swift Boat squad, which was 20+ sailors, as his "band of brothers". Of that picture only 2 actually support Kerry. They were a close knit group that patrolled the rivers in Vietnam together many times. Just because a sailor was not ON Kerry's boat does not discount their opinion.


If Kerry was lying then it would hurt his bid to be president.

He has not released the 200 page file of his 4 month stay in Vietnam. His superiors do not know how he got recomended for medals since they did not do it. Read the book!

 

It does discount their opinion when they weren't even present for the actions leading up to the Silver Star.

It does discount their opinion when they consistently lie and embellish to try and smear Kerry.

It does discount their opinion when their LEADER was so much of a Kerry supporter in '96 that he helped stump during his Senate reelection campaign.

Personally, I will take the word of the people who actually served WITH Kerry, ON HIS BOAT, over people who have demonstrably lied about his service, his wounds, and how closely they served "with" Kerry. The people on Kerry's boat, to a man, have given Kerry their support.

And if they are lying, it will still hurt Kerry's bid, but only if people overlook facts.

You need to stop listening to the RNC. His records have been released. Go to his website, they are posted for all to see.

I don't need to read a book full of lies any more than I need to see a movie (F9/11) full of lies. I already read two of Coulter's books as well as the piece of **** that O'Reilly wrote. That is plenty of GOP lies for one lifetime.

 

Ok, let me be very clear about this....

I do not care about what Kerry did 30 + years ago. I am more concerned about his record in the Senate.

Kerry was the one to use his Vietnam career as the cornerstone of his qualifications for president.

You know as well as I that if the records that proved Kerry to be correct were to be released then it would be front page news and the Swiftvets for truth would fade away. But they haven't and nor has the full disclosure of Kerry's record been released.


I am merely saying that there is a difference of opinion on what happened in Vietnam


His voting record in the Senate is a matter of record. The most liberal member of the senate. The following are some of the known recorded fact about his voting record.

Kerry Voted 98 Times For Tax Increases Totaling More Than $2.3 Trillion.

Kerry Voted At Least 126 Times Against Tax Cuts Totaling More Than $5.3 Trillion.

Kerry Voted Against 2001 And 2003 Bush Tax Cuts.

Kerry Voted Twice For Largest Tax Increase In U.S. History.

Kerry Voted For Higher Taxes On Social Security Benefits At Least Eight Times.

Kerry Voted Against Marriage Penalty Relief At Least 22 Times

Kerry Voted Against Expanding Child Tax Credit At Least 18 Times.

Kerry Voted For Higher Gas Taxes On The Middle Class 10 Times And He Once Supported A 50 Cent A Gallon Gas Tax Increase.

 

OK how about the following article about someone who DID serve ON Kerry's Boat.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,599034,00.html

No two men remember combat exactly the same way so Kerry has been extremely lucky that 9 out of his 10 crewmen have almost identical stories about his valor during various firefights and skirmishes. But memories can vary from person to person; Gardner insists that the Kerry he knew in Vietnam was a singularly un-heroic figure. He dismisses the glowing eyewitness accounts of his crewmates Jim Wasser (Radarman), Bill Zaladonis (Petty Officer), Drew Whitlow (Boatswain’s Mate) and Stephen Hatch (Boatswain’s Mate) as bunk. “Kerry sat some of them down and convinced them to buy into his side of what happened over there,” he explains in bizarrely conspiratorial fashion with no evidence to back him up. “When you’re as persuasive as Kerry it’s not hard to make a guy change something that he saw.”

 

I was trying not to make a huge entry.

I am sorry about hijacking your topic as well.

 

Dennis,

Which swift boat vets statements do you believe? The ones they made at the time of the war which are all very approving of Kerry, and complimentary to him, or those they've made 30 years later?

Andy already pointed out that those closest to Kerry regard him highly. Many of those who weren't closest and are trying to trash him now, still had glowing things to say about his service at the time. It's only lately that they've been upset. It started when Kerry protested an unjust war after he returned. Their accounts have contradicted their earlier accounts. They have substantiated very little, and Kerry shouldn't have to prove anything until they have more credible claims.

Kerry has denounced the Hitler ads, and he's denounced the ads attacking Bush's service. Bush hasn't done the same by denouncing the swifties ads.

 

Actually Bush has denouced the ads and has said that Kerry's service was honorable. Furthermore, Bush is looking into going to court and force ALL 527 ads to report their sources of money.


I tend to believe the swiftvets. I do not trust Kerry due to his past , specifically what he did and said after the war and how he tends to bend with the wind when making a decision. You can't be a hero in the war and then turnaround and be a comfort to the enemy. He even has a mini shrine in the Museum in Ho Chi Minh City. He met with members of the communist faction in Europe while still being a member of the Navy Reserve.
The reports that have surfaced are reports that are of public record. I know the Kerry has NOT signed the SF-180 form which gives the defense dept the right to release ALL of his military records so I would say until he does that I will have to question his words.


The men who are behind him are few compared to the many who question him. They may not have served on Kerry boat but they would have a much better knowledge of what went down in Nam' then any of us would. AT this point is it more a he said , she said situation but there are alot more negative swiftvets than positive ones.

I know Kerry has released a choice few pages of his record but there is no signed SF-180 form to release them in their entirety without his permission. If they were released and the swiftvet are proven wrong than why not release them. It would be the equivilant of nuking them out of the proverbial water.

Look its no secret that I support Bush but I support him because of his policies and I believe him to be the one to protect this country. Maybe Kerry would be just as good but due to my disagreement with Kerry's Policies (those he has choose to talk about in detail), I cannot vote for Kerry anyway.

 

I don't have a problem with you supporting Bush. I believe Bush has denounced all the 587's as a general swipe. But not all of them are as personal and negative, and unsubstantiated as the swift boat ad. Bush should mention that one specifically like Kerry did about the one that questioned Bush's service.

The one thing I don't understand is your willingness to believe the swifties over Kerry. Many of the vets weren't there with Kerry, many others praised Kerry at the time, and then many of their claims have been shot down by others.

This one is from a person who isn't a Kerry supporter at all. He illustrates that Thurlow was in the water and didn't know if they were being shot at or not. He also shows that the report mentiones things that Kerry wouldn't have even known about so that Kerry didn't write the report himself as the swifties have claimed.

All physical evidence supports Kerry. Now even this non-Kerry supporter supports Kerry's version of events.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/9505525.htm

This guy at least admits that despite not liking Kerry what happened happened and Kerry was there.

 

Just the parts that had the names of private citizens not running for a federal elected office.

I saw this on ABC Nightly News just a few days ago.

You look it up. links (multiple) from both ABC news and others

 

And the only reason seems to be that they are backing your guy.

So, you have a problem with him coming home and helping to end arguably the most unjust war in our history? I personally think that he was the ULTIMATE patriot for that service, and I believe that most Americans are glad that the war did not go on into the 80's.

You have been listening to the RNC again, huh? Kerry has the ability to change his mind based on the evaluation of all pertinent data. That is not "bend(ing) with the wind," that is intelligent decision making.

He WAS a hero in the war and then he was JUST AS MUCH a hero when he came home and helped to end the war. If you think he gave "comfort to the enemy," you are either seriously deluded or have been taken in by this whole smear campaign.

I call BULL$HIT on this one. If someone is claiming it, I would like to see evidence, but I suspect that this will end up on snopes.com.

Whatever. You will believe anything those lying liars say as long as it casts a shadow on his career.

REPORTS THAT HAVE SURFACED? He released all of those records MONTHS ago and are now grasping at any straw they can regarding Kerry's record.

And the many who question him now did NOT do so thirty years ago, they spoke in glowing terms about him. The SBVFT LEADER campaigned for Kerry's Senate reelection in 1996!!!

They have an agenda: to smear Kerry so that Bush and Rove can keep their hands relatively clean.

Is this what the GOP is rediced to? Grasping at a form that Kerry has not filled out. It is truly sad that GWB and his supporters cannot have a substantive debate about where this country is headed (literally, they REFUSE to have substantive debate as they turned down Kerry's challenge) and are instead reduced to this.

The only "policies" you have mentioned were a cut-and-paste from the RNC website and were all debunked months ago. Your boy Cheney voted for FOUR TIMES the decrease in intelligence funding that Kerry was accused of in one of the first Bush ads.

Again, GWB cannot run on his record, so he is just going to allow the SBVFT to muddy the campaign with these out and out lies.

 

I hope the following article will help show the fact that Mr. Kerry has not released ALL of his records.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-lips27.html



Plot thickens after checking records

August 27, 2004

BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB

In the midst of the controversy between the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and Kerry campaign representatives about Kerry's service in Vietnam, new questions have arisen.

The Kerry campaign has repeatedly stated that the official naval records prove the truth of Kerry's assertions about his service.

But the official records on Kerry's Web site only add to the confusion. The DD214 form, an official Defense Department document summarizing Kerry's military career posted on johnkerry.com, includes a "Silver Star with combat V."

But according to a U.S. Navy spokesman, "Kerry's record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a 'combat V' to anyone for a Silver Star."

Naval regulations do not allow for the use of a "combat V" for the Silver Star, the third-highest decoration the Navy awards. None of the other services has ever granted a Silver Star "combat V," either.

Fake claims not uncommon

B.G. Burkett, a Vietnam veteran himself, received the highest award the Army gives to a civilian, the Distinguished Civilian Service Award, for his book Stolen Valor. Burkett pored through thousands of military service records, uncovering phony claims of awards and fake claims of military service. "I've run across several claims for Silver Stars with combat V's, but they were all in fake records," he said.

Burkett recently filed a complaint that led last month to the sentencing of Navy Capt. Roger D. Edwards to 115 days in the brig for falsification of his records.

Kerry's Web site also lists two different citations for the Silver Star. One was issued by the commander in chief of the Pacific Command (CINCPAC), Adm. John Hyland. The other, issued by Secretary of the Navy John Lehman during the Reagan administration, contained some revisions and additional language. "By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself... ."

One award, three citations

But a third citation exists that appears to be the earliest. And it is not on the Kerry campaign Web site. It was issued by Vice Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, commander of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam. This citation lacks the language in the Hyland citation or that added by the Lehman version, but includes another 170 words in a detailed description of Kerry's attack on a Viet Cong ambush, his killing of an enemy soldier carrying a loaded rocket launcher, as well as military equipment captured and a body count of dead enemy.

Maj. Anthony Milavic, a retired Marine Vietnam veteran, calls the issuance of three citations for the same medal "bizarre." Milavic hosts Milinet, an Internet forum popular with the military community that is intended "to provide a forum in military/political affairs."

Normally in the case of a lost citation, Milavec points out, the awardee simply asked for a copy to be sent to him from his service personnel records office where it remains on file. "I have never heard of multi-citations from three different people for the same medal award," he said. Nor has Burkett: "It is even stranger to have three different descriptions of the awardee's conduct in the citations for the same award."

So far, there are also two varying citations for Kerry's Bronze Star, one by Zumwalt and the other by Lehman as secretary of the Navy, both posted on johnkerry.com.

Kerry's Web site also carries a DD215 form revising his DD214, issued March 12, 2001, which adds four bronze campaign stars to his Vietnam service medal. The campaign stars are issued for participation in any of the 17 Department of Defense named campaigns that extended from 1962 to the cease-fire in 1973.

However, according to the Navy spokesman, Kerry should only have two campaign stars: one for "Counteroffensive, Phase VI," and one for "Tet69, Counteroffensive."

94 pages of records unreleased?

Reporting by the Washington Post's Michael Dobbs points out that although the Kerry campaign insists that it has released Kerry's full military records, the Post was only able to get six pages of records under its Freedom of Information Act request out of the "at least a hundred pages" a Naval Personnel Office spokesman called the "full file."

What could that more than 100 pages contain? Questions have been raised about President Bush's drill attendance in the reserves, but Bush received his honorable discharge on schedule. Kerry, who should have been discharged from the Navy about the same time -- July 1, 1972 -- wasn't given the discharge he has on his campaign Web site until July 13, 1978. What delayed the discharge for six years? This raises serious questions about Kerry's performance while in the reserves that are far more potentially damaging than those raised against Bush.

Experts point out that even the official military records get screwed up. Milavic is trying to get mistakes in his own DD214 file corrected. In his opinion, "these entries are not prima facie evidence of lying or unethical behavior on the part of Kerry or anyone else with screwed-up DD214s."

Burkett, who has spent years working with the FBI, Department of Justice and all of the military services uncovering fraudulent files in the official records, is less charitable: "The multiple citations and variations in the official record are reason for suspicion in itself, even disregarding the current swift boat veterans' controversy."

Thomas Lipscomb is chairman of the Center for the Digital Future in New York.

 

The policies were taken from the Senate record not some made up list.

As for President Bush's accomplishments:


President Bush signing a federal ban on Partial Birth Abortion
Banned Partial Birth Abortion
Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy
Stopped foreign aid that would be used to fund abortions.

Supported and upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals

Signed E.O. reversing Clinton's policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act

Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty

Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court

Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California

Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules that would have shut down every home business in America

First Missile is Installed For NMD on July 23, 2004
Killed the U.S. - CCCP ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses

Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first ten ABM silos in Alaska and California so that America has a defense against North Korean nukes

President Bush pledged to Israel on 4/14/2004 that it could keep parts of the West Bank, giving international legitimacy to Jewish settlements there

Denied Palestinian refugees any right of return to what is now Israel, saying they should be resettled in a future Palestinian state instead

Part of coalition (Russia, Israel, EU, Palestine, USA) for Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace"

Pushed through THREE raises for our military

Increased Defense Dept funding which had deteriorated during the previous 8 years

Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit

Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers

Ordered Attorney-General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, NOT a leftist-imagined *collective* right

Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e. the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty)

Signed the 2004 Omnibus Budget 1/26/2004 that now MANDATES that gun buyers' background check information be fully and permanently destroyed within 24 hours of the completion of the check, no matter what.

Disarmed Libya of its Chemical, Nuclear, and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed

Won an agreement that U.S. Navy sailors may now freely board thousands of commercial ships in international waters to search for weapons of mass destruction under a landmark pact between the United States and Liberia, the world's No. 2 shipping registry (signed Feb 11, 2004), and Panama 5/10/2004 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/11/international/americas/11ship.html).

Successfully executed 2 wars: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom

Executed a WAR ON TERROR by getting world-wide cooperation to track funds/terrorists (has cut off much of the terrorist's funding and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network)

Bush Administration diplomacy led to the 5/25/2004 peace accord that ended a massive 20-year civil war between Sudan's Islamic north and Christian south after two million deaths

Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed

Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.

Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia

Initiated comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE was critical.

Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the Presidency

Reorganized bureaucracy...after 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency: the Department of Homeland Security.

Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.

Improving govt. efficiency with .8 million jobs put up for bid...weakening unions and cutting undeserved pay raises. Wants merit based promotions/raises only.

Orchestrated Republican control of the White House, the House AND the Senate.

Killed the liberal ABA's role in vetting federal judges for Congress.

GWB signed an executive order enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision (re: union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes)

Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession.

Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.

Signed 2 income tax cuts ---- 1 of which was the largest Dollar-value tax cut in world history

Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains

In process of eliminating IRS marriage penalty.

Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people

Eliminated the Estate Tax (AKA "Death Tax") that was taking small farms and businesses from families

Signed into law the No Child Left Behind legislation delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations)

Reorganized the INS in an attempt to safeguard the borders and ports of America and to eliminate bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.

Signed trade promotion authority

Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men and women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa

Passed Medicare Reform (authorized $39.5 Billion per year for preventive medicine such as drugs and doctor visits as well as included a ten year Privatization option)

Urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits

Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims

Submitted comprehensive Energy Plan--awaits Congressional action (works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.)

Endorses and promotes The Responsibility Era ("In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else -- to one in which every single American understands that he or she are responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself. " -----this quote was too good to leave out)

Started the USA Freedom Corps

Initiated review of all federal agencies with a goal to eliminate federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of federal gov while increasing private sector jobs.

Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become The League of Nations ( in other words, completely irrelevant)

Nominated strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.

President Bush opened up an additional part of Alaska for domestic oil drilling. In 2004, the National Petroleum Reserve, an area west of the existing Prudhoe Bay field, was approved for new energy exploration and production.

Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary clean-up of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.

As part of the national forests clean-up, the President restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges) and removed the need for an EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.

Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.

President Bush signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal Aliens

S. 1685, the Basic Pilot Extension Act of 2003, was signed by President Bush on December 3, 2003.
It extends for five years the workplace employment eligibility authorization pilot programs created in 1996. It expands the pilot programs from the original five states to all 50 states.

 

And that's why he must be removed from office!

 

not so fast there...

'Partial-birth' abortion ban dealt a setback
By Larry Neumeister, Associated Press | August 27, 2004

NEW YORK -- A federal judge declared the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act unconstitutional yesterday in the second such ruling in three months -- even though he called the procedure "gruesome, brutal, barbaric, and uncivilized."

US District Judge Richard C. Casey, one of three federal judges across the country to hear simultaneous challenges to the law earlier this year, faulted the ban for not containing an exception to protect a woman's health, something the Supreme Court has made clear is required in laws prohibiting particular types of abortion.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/27/partial_birth_abortion_ban_dealt_a_setback/

 

I know but it is just slight setback.

 

Did you read the article I posted? Kerry DID NOT write the report himself. There is stuff in the report that Kerry wasn't even there to witness. Another person testified that Thrulow who made the claim, didn't know what was going on because he was in the water himself. The Swiftboat Vet who finally cleared that up is NOT a Kerry supporter. The man doesn't like Kerry but did feel the need to clear the mess up. The man who cleared it up is also the officer who was pulling Thurlow from the water after he fell in. That man is the other person to be awarded a medal from that particular event. Thurlow is wrong, and it's been proven by the report, and a witness is partial AGAINST Kerry.

The claim that it's a false report written by Kerry is in itself totally FALSE.

How on earth could Kerry write a report about something he wasn't there to witness. The claim that Kerry wrote the report has been shot down, like so much of the other clay pidgeon claims this groups has made.