Steve hasnt dominated as of yet VERSE.... 2 Reasons for that: 1) Rudy T's offense 2) Cuttino Mobley, (they do not complement each other at all)
That's a good one... ha....ha.... A very good thread about questioning the ability of our star player who any other team in the league would be absolutely drooling over. The only reason threads like these get started is by impatient, frustrated people who think that championships are owed to the Rockets and that if we aren't making big waves every year with trades and free agents then we aren't doing what it takes to win. Well I disagree. We are a team who hangs on to its stars, grooms them with good coaching and team philosophy and waits until we have the right supporting cast to make a run. Steve is one of those stars and together with Yao we have all the pure talent we need to win a champion ship. They are young and their team mates are young. It will take time, only time, to make this team better. If we don't make any roster changes, we will get better every year for the next five years. Threads like this are stupid because they call into question the ability of a player whose ability has proven itself time and time again to people who actually attend or watch Rockets games. Steve Francis excels at playing basketball. For you statisticians out there, who all you do is examine the sports section of the barnicle, he might not fill your void. But anyone who watches Rockets games simply has to be impressed by Steve's play. The guys is determined, works hard, makes some bad decisions, but all in all is one amazing player who can dominate any game he is in.
Exactly, LeGrouper! And verse, whether you wanted it to or not, this thread has been turned into Steve bashers vs. Pro Steve posters.
and by doing such, as a mod, you encourage more of the same from others... if that's cool with you, ok. but next time someone complains about the quality of the GARM and how its on the decline, i'll be sure to remind them that sarcastic one liners that have zero to do with the intended subject matter (or at least don't explain how they do) are absolutely encouraged. capiche?
how funny. i think i was just giving an opinion about what you said. maybe if you avoided the sarcastic one liners and actually took the time to formulate a well reasoned response to the intended subject matter, i wouldn't have to give opinions and interpretations... ...oh, and nice job of derailing this thread. yet another practice allegedly frowned upon by, well, you know....
40 pt games in the 2002-2003 regular season: Steve Francis 1 Tim Duncan 0 scoring avg of steve francis last year: 21 ppg scoring avg of dominant scorer scottie pippen in 93-94: 22 ppg steve could go off for a lot if he wasn't busy being the point guard (and no matter what you think of his pg skills, he still has to get others involved every night). Jeff, rimbaud, and Achebe have all made good points. namely, why are we starting threads to diss our best player, why do we put said player in a no-win situation (get others involved but dominate scoring) then complain about the no-win situation, and we exaggerate our expectations once someone gets really good like steve instead of just being happy they are what they are. steve is not talented enough to lead a team to the title. for all of his physical gifts, they do not match up to those granted to the likes of kg (7' athletic freak), TD (unbelievably coordiinated 7'), shaq (a monster), or kobe and tmac (more athletic than steve AND 5 or 6" taller). and at last count, 3 of those guys hasn't led anybody to anything except first round exits. appreciate that steve is very good and that if yao surpasses him as we hope (this must happen to win the title with this group) and steve is our 2nd best player, we will be damn glad to have him as our 2nd best player. the future is bright. enjoy the players, enjoy the team* (i love this ima_drummer2k invention), don't overly criticize, things will be better. *except for moochie
good lord! when did i say he was not valued as a player?? huh? what trade did i just suggest? what huge free agent signing did i just suggest? i fact, the only tangible conclusion that i have stated is that steve may be better off concentrating on scoring in a dominant fashion, as opposed to being a threat to go for triple doubles. once again, i say, he may be better off doing so. such is the topic for debate in this thread....not the crap that's been blurted out by other posters who shall remain nameless. great! now we're getting somewhere! i have no problem hanging on to steve. and isn't what i'm questioning a way to "groom" steve? isn't it?? as for the supporting cast argument, which MadMirror did an excellent job of presenting (thank you, btw), you're right. we don't - right now - have the appropriate supporting cast. i don't dispute that one iota. but, i see the issue of maximizing steve's abilities as a much larger issue than that of acquiring the proper supporting cast. of course, steve's abilities won't be fully realized until those players are set, but i believe it's important to have him in the correct role/mindset to begin with. for example, if we are continue with steve being the tri-dub threat that he is (and a very good one, at that), we need to look at supporting players that are capable of filling up the basket, as well. the reason being that opposing teams can force steve into the "passing & rebounding mode", if he is not focused solely on scoring. those teammates must be able to create a shot of their own, because defenses are bound to be tighter on them, than if they were continually sagging trying to stop steve. for an extended example, look at jason kidd in the finals. the spurs cut off kidd's "easy" scoring abilities and forced his teammates to create. they were absolutely incapable of doing such. shooters like lucious harris were useless, because the close out space was much shorter. however, if we're looking at steve being a dominant force offensively (scoring wise), we'd be better served looking for people that can spot up and shoot the open jumper with alarming consistency. first, i think that scoring is BY FAR his strongest attribute. second, i think that (as many have posted here), he is very difficult to stop when penetrating. so it because paramount to have people that can catch & shoot. i'm not sure if i'm explaining the difference between the above two paragraphs clearly. if not, i apologize for the inadequacy. but, there is a distinct difference between someone who penetrates to score and someone who penetrates to create. defense know this, and alter their collapses/close outs as a result of it. absolutely. team chemistry is built over time. huh? i'm not questioning his ability. and i'm not buried in the stat bin, either. if you read the thread, you'll see that i even said that a dominant scorer may not necessarily be in the top 5 of the league stats. how is that "(examining) the sports section of the barnicle" only? trust this, i do watch the games. all of them. and i don't doubt his talent. what i question is whether or not his present focus is best for the team. that's not a stab at steve. good lord, the dude is talented, no doubt. but might he (and the team) be better off if steve concentrated on being a dominant scorer? would you mind, finally, addressing that question? i mean, it's been stated repeatedly throughout the thread, yet you chose to put on the stevie-protector-badge and run to his defense, when he isn't even being personally threatened (at least not by me).
and that was initiated by whom? it's ridiculous, man. i said nothing inflammatory about steve, yet, the SPP (stevie protector police) come in guns blazin'. they're like a bunch of freakin' Don Quixotes.
Name the top point guards in the league, and now, other the J kidd, name 1 who excels or dominates at anything.........
Come on Verse, you know Jeff better than that. Don't go causing him to become all sterile and boring just because he's a mod. It appears to me that you read a little too deep into what he said. It was by no means an apparent attack on you or your thread. The very fact that this is getting a little out of hand completely backs up his statement about hating the summer. That's what happens when there is absolutely no news to speak of and no games to critique. It's the same thing every summer, except it just worse and worse because of the amount of active members trying to be noticed and heard. Your question to start this thread is actually a very good one. I'm sure back in tha day when there was less than a 100 of us, this would have been a great discussion.
try listing total career 40 pt games, f4p. the numbers change drastically. as for pip in 93/94, scoring average is not indicative of the threat that pip was that year. if i score 50 points one game and 0 points the next, i'm avg'ing 25ppg. if that indicative of my scoring prowess? does that tell anyone what i am capable of doing? not really. that may very well be true. since Jeff couldn't...would you mind pointing out where in this thread i dissed steve? very good point. imo, i think we (meaning the fans & organization) were wrong to believe that steve could be this all around talent, tri-dub in waiting, great player and lead us to the title. steve is a tri-dub waiting to happen. steve is a great player. but i don't think that steve as a tri-dub waiting to happen is capable of leading us to a title. i do wonder, however, if he is capable of doing so if he concentrated much more on scoring. is that a diss, somehow??? thanks for the response, f4p. it was at least well thought out. i'm not ready to concede what you're saying about steve not being "talented enough to lead a team to the title". i don't know that yet, and until i see steve concentrating more on scoring, i don't know that i ever will know... and, in the end, it may not make a difference (especially if one of his teammates surpasses steve's greatness). last, i do appreciate steve's talents. absolutely. and i agree that our future is exceptionally bright. i'm just trying to offer a suggestion as to how steve may realize his ultimate potential.
I appreciate the detailed response verse but I have to ask you this - did you really intend to make this post a constructive one? If that was true I want to say that you went about it the wrong way. If you can't see it with this example I will provide what is perhaps a more obvious one. Ask your girlfriend or wife "what is ONE reason why I should be shagging you?" and I think you will catch on to how this could be inflammatory.
LeGrouper, i see what you're saying. and i'll agree that if you only read the thread title and not the opening post, it could be misconstrued. but if you read the title and the opening post, it is neither inflammatory nor misleading. oh, and you're right. the SPP are like a bunch of hairtriggered women.
verse- So far, the only 2 "areas" I've seen you mention as examples are scoring and passing. Perhaps we can get a closer definition of "area". Francis excels with his athleticism. There are very few guards in the NBA who can match him in terms of athleticism, and IMO none are at the PG slot. Here's a name I haven't seen mentioned in this thread: Kevin Garnett. Garnett averaged just .3 ppg less than Duncan this past year. I don't think there's any doubt that KG is one of the best players in the league, and he's been dragging a team without much outstanding talent around him to the playoffs for a few years now. I don't think anyone can doubt that defenses are geared up entirely to "how do we stop Garnett?" (ok, maybe they say keep a hand in Wally's face, and don't let Hudson get off as well). He has a grand total of 2 40 point games- both exactly 40 points. Neither came this past year. He also has 8 full years in the NBA vs. Francis' 4. This leads in my mind- Is being a dominant scorer (which KG/Francis aren't IMO) better than being a dominant offensive player (which KG/Francis are, IMO)?
NIKEstrad, i have to go, but i wanted to give a quick response to your post (which, btw, was very good). kevin garnett (brace yourselves, people), imo, is not AT THIS TIME good enough to lead his team to the nba finals. *shock and awe* seriously, for all the talent he has (arguablythe most in the nba), until KG decides to actually want the ball in the clutch, he'll never get to the big dance. so, it's not about talent, it's about the way he plays the game. in fact, i'm glad you brought his name up. kevin garnett = 7'1" steve francis the differences being that steve isn't scared of the ball in the 4th quarter, and KG actually plays great defense. what i'm referencing, is his/their offensive strategy. both of these players need to understand that being more aggressive offensively will only HELP their teams! the rest of your post (which, again, is excellent), i'll respond to in the morn. hopefully, you'll be around. later...
