How often did you see him dunk in the last 2 years? Getting to the line is more like it, he does not finish.
Has he really ever been given the chance to prove that he can be a dominant scorer? People always blast him for not spreading the wealth. I think your question is unfair because he has never been asked to be a dominant scorer. When he scores 30+ and we lose then everyone b****es at him for being selfish. I think it's a given that he could go off for 30+ on a consistant basis if he were asked to. Isn't that why the majority of people on this board want him moved to the 2?! And what's wrong with being a well rounded player? I think that shows that if he were to choose an area of his game to focus on, he would excel at that. Seems to me that some people are never happy with anything that he does.
As much as I love Francis I think it's his flashiness/explosiveness of style and play which makes him appear to be a greater player than he really is. Don't get me wrong he is a damn fine player but he's no better than say for example Stephon Marbury. What's holding Francis back right now from the other "dominant" players like the Mcgradys, Bryants and Duncans is his inconsistency. I can remember many games where Francis just flat out dominates such as the game he took over against the Blazers after the hard foul from Rasheed Wallace or the time when he ripped the Lakers apart with his all around game. But not coming through in the clutch (playoff battle) where he scores 6 points going 2-14 against Utah and scores 12 points on 5-20 shooting the previous night against Portland just a couple of examples of many terrible outputs. That being said I think Francis will be much more consistent this year and will lead the Rockets to the playoffs and finally get the credit which he deserves.
Francis excels at: - beating his man and causing the defense to adjust and collapse - getting to the line (and making his FT's) - rebounding (for a PG his size) He does lots of other things pretty well, too. I really think that Francis is the guy we have to be concerned about the least. Some things that I would be more concerned about: - Yao's development - EG's development - backup guard position(s) - improving the team's outside shooting I think all four of those things going well would make the Rockets a better team than Francis becoming a dominant scorer.
No matter how badly we were playing/losing, he was still playing point guard. Had he tried to get the team back in the game by scoring, everyone would have been b****ing about his selfishness (see: 1st game of season vs. Indy, 39 points and making Ron Artest look foolish at times).
Because it feels like this forum has basically become the Yao vs. Steve forum. Hasn't anyone else noticed they play on the same team? Does anyone actually like both of them? We've got this thread essentially saying that one of only three players in the league to average 20/6/6 over the past three seasons just really doesn't do anything very well. We've got the "what happens when Yao becomes a free agent" thread which of course won't happen for 3 years. We have the "if you had to pick Steve or Yao, who would you take." Isn't there something else to talk about? Haven't we exhausted the threads bashing the crap out of our own players and pitting them against one another? I remember when we used to just bash Pippen and the Jazzholes.
I do. I like them both. I still root hard against Pippen and the Jazzholes. I long for Pip's retirement (and banishment!) and the demise of Stockton-to-Malone. One out of two hates taken care of.
Steve is the only player in the league that can cross his man over three times and still en up shooting an off balance long range jumpshot. If he learned to play defense and value substance over style, I would have no complaints, TOs be damned.
I actually like both of them a lot. I'm weird in that I actually like ALL the Rockets*, even the much maligned Cat and MoT. I still maintain that even if the team stays as is**, we will be much improved next year. *except Moochie **except we need to cut Moochie
maybe. my question goes beyond the "stats". it's a matter of being a dominant player. i'll give you another example that hopefully will help to clarify my point: larry bird. bird (in all his greatness) was the kind of player that could shoot the ball only 10 times, yet absolutely dominate the game. his ability to score was so well respected, in fact feared, that he was able to make other players look better than they were. danny ainge, jerry schicting (sp), cornbread maxwell, robert parish, etc. were all good players in the own rights, but were made into weapons because of bird's greatness. of course, i'm speaking of one of the greatest players of all time, but i just wanted to illustrate how stats don't always reflect the true impact of a player. there was no question that bird was one of the games greatest scorers, yet he didn't have to score a boatload of points all the time to be effective. so, francis averaging 20/10 does not necessarily equate to him being a dominant player. hell, he could just conceivably average the same #s as last season and be a dominant player. it would take multiple singularly dominant games versus top notch defenders/opponents like the lakers game of last season. if he can do that, there will be games where he only scores 10 points, but has just as big of an impact due to the reputation/respect he garners from opponents. doing those things would make him a better player, true. but does it necessarily make him the dominant player necessary to achieve the highest of goals? doesn't gary payton do those things? but has he ever been considered the type of guy that can be the "lead horse" and win his team a championship? no. this is why it's so difficult to be a point guard that is so dominant that you can lead a team to a title. your duty is to involve your teammates, which, almost by default, puts you in a position where you need a dominant teammate...at least if you want to win the whole thing. only the truly great ones, in recent times, have ever done this: thomas & magic. thomas could do it by virtue of his late game performances. everyone knew zeke could go for 20+ in a quarter. and he knew it to. so he involved his teammates early and often. if the "d" disrespected him, he'd bust them...just to keep them honest. and, without fail, he'd obliterate teams in the 4th quarters - regardless of the defense. he was so talented, it's ridiculous. i'll tell you this: francis does not have thomas' talent. magic, by virtue of his size and skill level as a point guard, was a one man weapon from his first nba game. he changed the position. he changed the game. and, even though he was a great assist man, everyone knew that he was 100% capable of socring 40+ if needed. teams do not know that about francis. once again, i know these are alltime greats, but that's my point. to be a non-big man that leads your team to a title, you need to be exceptional. dominant. game changing. is francis any of these things? is he at the top of the list at any of his given skills?
Consider this as a point guard Steve is- Shooting/scoring- good Ball handling- good Passing- average turnovers-
far from it. i never have denied that. i'll readily admit and be proud of the fact that he is. but does being "one of the most complete guards in the whole nba" mean that you have what it takes to lead your team to the top of the mountain? or are you better off dominating in one area and being above average in others?
I'm confused verse. By your own post, shouldn't I assume that Steve is incredibly well rounded? You know if Steve got 9 points per game, 7 assists and 5 rebounds per game, he'd be the second coming... simply b/c we would all manage our own expectations. Unfortunately Steve puts up 20, 6 and 6, so deep down we know he really sucks.
Last post retry Steve is- scoring/shooting- good ballhandling- good passing-- average turnovers- poor decision making- average rebounding- exceptional defense- average assists- average highlight dunks- very good making players around him better- average as a go to guy- average POTENTIAL- exceptional Steve's best is his rebounding, potential, and highlight dunks everywhere else he is good not great
did you skip over the part where i said that we're leaving yao out of this discussion? if not, then how am i pitting one against the other? didn't i make it clear enough that we are discussing who is presently the best player on the rockets: steve francis? i know you might be irritated by some of the inane threads we get in here, but i think you're waaaay off base here. no one has made this into a yao v steve thread...except for you. if you disagree, then prove me wrong. who else, in this thread, has pitted yao against steve? don't misquote me. i never said that. i asked, "does he EXCEL at any one facet?" there is a distinct difference between between being an all around above average player and being dominant at a particular facet. grant hill vs. tracy mcgrady scottie pippen (jordan years) vs. kobe bryant fat lever vs. bernard king does that clarify things more for you? also, the tone you took, imo, was not only off base, but far from appropriate from a moderator. as much as the mods here encourage etiquette and "posts with substance", your reply of "God, I hate the summer." was anything other than constructive, topical, full of substance, or courteous. the river only rises as high.........
verse- Steve excels at rebounding for his position and he excels at driving to the hoop using his quickness, and if he starts getting fouls called like superstar status guys get he could use it to pick his scoring average up 5-6 pts per game.
Achebe, steve IS incredibly well rounded. he is a phenomenally talented player. but would the TEAM be better off if he was specifically dominant in a certain area? that area could be passing or scoring...doesn't make a difference. like i said, a move to the 2 guard may, indeed, prove to be the best thing for steve and the rockets as he may flourish and blossom into a truly dominant scorer. i, honestly, do not know...which is why this thread exists.
