NAACP Atlanta Head: Vick Would be Treated Better if He Killed a Person

I don't think many people have actually SEEN bullfighting. I've never met someone who saw a bullfight who wasn't disgusted by it. I've never actually seen one.

I draw really sharp distinctions between dogfighting and the zoo.

 

I do as well. The zoo was an extreme example, but I don't think hunting or bullfighting is. However, many argue that animals in the zoo still suffer (as opposed to being left in their natural environment). The main difference is just as you have mentioned...the distinction that you draw. We don't really see that suffering as "that bad" I guess.

 

I don't go to zoos.

Unless there are being rescued and have no other choice, the animals don't belong there. To put them in cages for our entertainment is wrong. The animals do not act naturally in these environments and do things like kill their offspring etc, the elephants have done in the Houston zoo.

zoochosis - is what behaviorists call the mental illness caused by the stress of captivity. And they can range from a simple behavior such as pacing back & forth-as a sign of frustration to move around; to self-mutilation such as tail-biting, head-bashing & leg-chewing. Other behaviors would be biting the bars, licking the walls/bars, bobbing their heads up & down repeatedly, unnatural twisting & rolling of neck, over-grooming to the point of having bare patches & vomiting. These are caused by enforced idleness, loss of home or “natural habitat”, loss of normal social groups and extensive loneliness.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Well, I don't kill the animals for the hell of it. I actually like the meat and I can't go to the local supermarket and buy rabbit, deer, dove and a number of other wild meats.

It's OK to do because it is within the confines of the law and it is used as a sort of population control. I just don't hide the fact that the animals do suffer a lot of the time, death is usually slow and it can be a very gruesome scene when one goes on a hunt.

 

because the intent is ENTIRELY differnet. let's not pretend that's unimportant.

to watch dogs ravage each other...to get pleasure out of that. i'm sorry, but i see that as WHOLLY different from the other things you mentioned. the state would beg people to hunt deer if they weren't already willing. but training animals to rip one another apart...with rules in place to offer them little or no aid even during the fight...to train them by throwing other non-fighting dogs into rings so your fighters can get the taste of their first kill...

i'm sorry..but there's a really demented element of enjoying watching another creature SUFFER for nothing more than the sake of watching them suffer here... that is beyond me.

and in this instance, it's exacerbated by the same crap that, from what we're reading/hearing, is commonplace with those who participate in this "sport." the torture and killing of the dogs that don't perform well.

come on. seriously. there is something intensely different about this. this sort of behavior is generally considered a precursor to violence against humans.

i'll say again...bullfighting is illegal in this country. i think it's brutal. had mike vick been organizing bullfighting rings in the united states, he'd also be looking at prison time.

 

different topic...but anyone see a story about the NAACP upset that a chinese sculptor was hired to do a statue of MLK, and not a black one?

i've only seen one story about it but havent found anthing more reliable

 

Nah, they'd just hire a hunter, like California does since they outlawed hunting mountain lions.

 

Yes I saw that story. They were not just upset because a Chinese sculptor was chosen that an American, regardless of race, was not chosen.

 

thats freaking comical. MLK is rolling over in his grave.

NAACP is a joke and should be treated like one

 

Yeah I agree, If Vick had killed someone... all the press coverage on all the channels would be insane. That was a dumb thing to say from the NAACP.

 

I think the NAACP serves its purpose but this was a bad move by them because it goes against what the man was about.

 

Do you say "basically" so much so you can just throw out all the other stuff I said?

Well I guess maybe you consider tradition and family activities to be less important than others. I don't think you can just dismiss them so easily though. And yes it is a sport. But it's a sport that leads to good things for humans. Unlike a sport soley for gambling which is bad for humans. (this is for the definition of morals as benefit to society vs harm to society, if you have a different way to judge right and wrong that disputes this example please explain it)

Yes it does. The end result is not the entire story. A person who killed themself vs. a person killed saving people (eg. fireman) "your loved one" died in their sleep vs. them being raped and tortured for days then finally died of starvation.

Plenty of animal rights groups also have problems with people using animals in anyway. The animals in rodeo are treated very well. Much better than many pets. Bucking straps do not hurt the bulls in any way.

 

Are you a bull?

 

Yeah, I am.

 

The intent is not totally different. The intent is to entertain yourself at the expense of an animal. It just so happens that in one situation the animal suffers more before it dies (comparing dogfighting to hunting for sport, not for food). I fully agree that dogfighting seems to involve more torture to the animal, expcept for maybe in the situations Lil Pun mentioned.

Also, I am not arguing against the legality of dogfighting. Again, weed and alcholol are both drugs even though one is legal and one isn't.

 

I only don't agree with the parts of family tradition, fun, trophy collection, etc. Basically anything not related to population control or food. Those other things that you mentioned just seem like reasons to justify what you are doing IMO. It may be someones tradition to fight dogs or bulls. Again, I agree that the dogfighting probably causes the animal to suffer more than hunting for sport....but in the end you still have an abused animal in the name of human entertainment, for whatever reasons.

 

Mr. M, I hear you, but do you have pets? We do, so I kind of can't make a big comment on zoos.

Some zoos are doing a much, much better job these days, by the way. The Life of Pi has some interesting discussion that ends up leaning pro-zoo.

 

Are you comparing pets to captive wildlife? Big difference.

 

I have 2 cats. They can come and go. One I got as a kitten and one just showed up as a stray.

I adopted a red ear slider turtle that wasn't being taken care of. If I thought she would be better off being let go I would do so. I already looked into it.

I will only take care of rescued animals. I do not think that animals should be bred for pets. I don't believe in captive breeding either, unless maybe the specie can only survive under captive breeding conditions. That's another dilemma.

After these pets are gone, I don't plan on ever having more unless I then think it is somehow beneficial.

So there is some positives in Zoos but generally I believe that keeping animals in cages for enjoyment is usually causing more harm than good. Even when you are trying to protect them, you have to kill other animals to feed them so overall it inst beneficial.