N. Korea has nuclear ICBMs. Threatened to launch US premptive strike for UN sanctions

This is exactly why they're doing it. Two main reasons:

(1) Get the nations of the world to cave in and give their pathetic country aid.

(2) Solidify Kim Jong-un as a brave leader who stands up to the tyranny of the United States and South Korea.

Unfortunately for them, I think it backfired on (1). Now their only ally, China, is pissed, too.

 

China is getting a free pass because the US knows that in negotiatin with NK, they cannot antagonise China at all, if anything, NK is probably one area where US and China have common ground, both slightly fed up with NKs antics. There is no telling what NK would do if China actually tried to intervene directly. Maybe go even more bat**** crazy.

 

I don't think we're in any position to give China passes, free or otherwise. China's not a baby anymore, nor are they a friend. They don't say 'how high' when we say 'jump' and they don't do things just to play nice with the US. They'll do something to North Korea when it suits their interests, not ours. I don't think any finger wagging from us is going to make a bit of difference, aside from making everything worse. I too hope that China will decide that the Kims are more trouble than they're worth and it's time for sensible government in North Korea. But, they aren't accountable to us, so all I can really do is hope.

 

All this talk is based upon the belief that North Korea will use nukes (regardless of whether they have them or not). If not, then it is further proof our government enjoys blowing smoke up our asses for the benefit of a few. How does the CIA know North Korea will just start nuking the world the second they get nukes? I mean, they were dead wrong about 9/11 and Iraq, at least that is my perception - perhaps I should research more.

 

Alot of warmongering going on in this thread. Glad you all aren't in any positions of leadership. If anything, we should try increasing our trade with North Korea (via their government, since they're communists). Trade, in most instances, is mutually beneficial, and could serve to weaken their government's propaganda campaign against the States. The same goes for China. Economic protectionism is a waste of time and only serves to harm the people who benefit the most by increased trade.

 

No. North Korea is as communist as China is. In fact, maybe even less, because China does mention worker's rights stuff as a sop every now and then.

The North Korean leadership has nothing to gain by trading with the evil Yankee pigdogs. Absolutely none. The minute they start joining into the global capitalist system, then they just basically become poor South Korea, and then they completely lose all of their legitimacy - North Korea currently justifies itself by claiming "yeah, those South Koreans are wealthy, but they lack the true spiritual bonds that Juche gives us blah blah blah". They can't do that if they're trading with us.

 

Exactly the point.

 

And why would the North Korean leadership agree to something which would destroy their regime?

 

Because they're damned either way. Hunger and poverty will destroy this regime if they don't. This whole charade of threats of nuclear war is just a propaganda campaign to keep their people afraid and subservant to the state.

 

Hunger and poverty haven't destroyed the regime the last 50 years. What's different now?

 

What is he drawing?

 

Warning: Large picture

Spoiler

 

Good News! There is no red phone :grin:

 

North Korea already has nukes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_North_Korean_nuclear_test

Most of the current round of tensions isn't being driven by the CIA but by NK's own rhetoric and actions.

 

So if the North Koreans fire one or more missiles with a trajectory that threatens the US, our friends and allies, do we shoot it/them down? After these threats, it would be difficult to simply wait to see what happens. Doing that would be the last thing the US would want to do, however. We've spent billions and billions of dollars developing these missile defense systems, and you could bet on China and Russia closely monitoring any use of them by our Aegis destroyers, at least two being off the Korean coast and armed with our latest sea-launched missile defense system. If we shoot it/them down, they learn plenty. If we fail at shooting them down, they learn even more, and we appear weaker than we do at the moment. We also don't know know North Korea would react.

 

I think you have to attempt to shoot them down. Admittedly it shares a lot with the rest of the planet.

NK won't do anything IMO.

 

I think the answer is absolutely yes. The US government couldn't justify not trying to shoot them down if they did any damage somewhere. And while others learn if our systems work, we also learn if our systems work - and I think that's far more valuable for our own strategic planning. It's not like, in the near future, China or Russia are going to be threatening to nuke us anyway.

 

It's a crap shoot, but how can we assume that their own words are just so much mumbo jumbo? If we in fact do have that capability to shoot them down, how can we not after what they've said, combined with what they've done recently, and what we've just learned from at least one US intelligence report? A big quandary. If a missile(s) is headed out to sea, just let it go, unless we want to make a demonstration of our defense capabilities. If that's the case, the stuff better work. I have mixed feelings about it. North Korea's leadership has to know that if they hit Okinawa and/or Guam with atomic weapons, for example, that we'll turn large chunks of North Korea into a sizziling parking lot, right? No one wants that. No one. But are they rational behind the bluster? Is it bluster, or are they serious?

edit: Just saw your post, Major. It's essentially how I feel. If the trajectory is headed out into the Pacific, and not approaching the kinds of possible targets I mentioned, or Japan, then you let them go. Otherwise, shoot them down... if we can. I think we can, because of what we assume is their level of technology, but it isn't a certainty. As for China and Russia, I wasn't really concerned about war breaking out anytime soon, but more for what they could find out about our capabilities.