My thoughts on trading up to near the top of the draft

I never said they could be picking at #10, I said in that area. Re-read my post.

 

Speaking of #12, alot of draftees are canceling Grizzlies workouts. Could this be an opportunity for us to grab the #12 in a deal. They do have three 1st round picks.

 

This is what happens when you're subjected to too long a dry spell of legitimate big-man prospects on your team, LongTimeFan. No offense, Chuck Hayes. It's not your fault you beat out Stromile Swift.

The first kid that walks through the door taller than 6'9" and can get off the floor is a franchise player to our weary eyes.

I said when the Rockets acquired Luis Scola that he would be a solid player because of what he had done for his Argentinian national team in FIBA play. But I figured that from what Scola had accomplished against high-caliber competition over extended periods.

You've got to see what players can do for extended periods against top-level competition before you're all googly-eyed over what you're hopeful they can do for your club.

Jordan Hill is no exception to that. He's Chuck Hayes with height, to me. Which is pretty good, actually. But one of the things that kept Hill on the bench in New York was that the Knicks already had what Hill could POTENTIALLY do in David Lee (assuming that Mike D'Antoni really wanted Hill to work and improve).

I agree that Chase Budinger has the most POTENTIAL, based on what we saw from him last season, into becoming a perennial All-Star level player for the Rockets. Aaron Brooks is a possibility, too, but it's not nearly as certain as some of us may think. As long as Steve Nash, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd and Chauncey Billups reside in the same conference, the chances are slim that Brooks cracks that group in the near future.

Hard work is nice to see from guys, in terms of improving. But some things have to be in place already before you start assigning All-Star status to young players.

Dwight Howard in Orlando, I hear, is going to reach out to our own Hakeem Olajuwon in order to improve his low-post offensive game. Hakeem had hand-eye coordination from playing soccer in Nigeria until he was 14 or 15 years old that translated very well into some of the legendary offense he was able to build. No matter how hard Howard works at it, he won't be able to duplicate what Hakeem had already learned.

I anticipate the same thing for Jordan Hill. He could certainly become David Lee for the Rockets (which would be ideal if Yao Ming is still playing at a high level), but I haven't seen anything from Hill that would lead me to believe anything more can be expected from him.

The fun part, as always, is waiting to see how things turn out.....

 

I was for tanking, but I'm fairly happy with the way things turned out - seeing how Yao got injured.

DM will have his misses on draft picks; hopefully it doesn't happen this year, with our top picks.

 

Does Brandon Roy ring a bell. Isn't it alittle easier trying to move up from #12 to #10 instead of moving up from #20 to #10. Every pick closer to #1 is much more valuable. I'm sure Morey is offering #14 and other assets to move up. The closer to #1 the less assets you have to give up in attempting to move up. I was not for Adelman trying to win every game at the end of the season, knowing they were not going to make the playoffs.

 

Heres the exact quote... agreed with every other instances EXCEPT brad Dougherty and WEBBER. Dougherty probably due to his injuries, but webber??? He was all Nba for multiple seasons, the best player on one of the top 2-3 teams in the nba from 2000-2004.

 

Here is the thing guys, unless you are getting a guy that will contribute THIS year, then giving up Chase or Hill would be a step backwards.

If you look over the course of the last few years, Chase has been the BEST 1st round pick as a rookie since Yao Ming.

Rookies do not generally come in and contribute to winning basketball teams and we got one late in the 2nd round that did just that.

I don't want a risky player if we have to give up any of our young assets....because in my mind they are even MORE risky.....because they have not done it on an NBA level.

We have Chase and Hill......they will be BETTER this year than last, and personally, I would rather not see either of them traded to move up in the draft unless it is a top 2 player.....because beyond Turner and Wall, everyone is a risk.

Just my .02.

DD

 

Except, He's a second round pick LOL

AB is the best 1st rounder since Yao.

 

I guess I mispoke, I meant that he has had the BEST impact as a rookie player since Yao.

Most players do not make that much of an impact right away, and the fact that Chase did it so early, and consistently for the entire year makes me wonder how good he will be in year 2 and 3, when players generally improve the most.

Same for Hill.....he looked better and better as the year went on, and his speed and quickness was outstanding, which is a rarity on big men...and usually is a huge advantage.

DD

 

So you would rather keep Budinger, with Battier and Ariza still on the roster, than use him in a trade for Favors or Cousins?

That is just silly.

 

I don't see the Chase Budinger all-star potential either. If anyone on the Rockets is close to being an all-star, it's Aaron Brooks. Second place is a few tiers down from AB.

Don't get me wrong; Budinger is a nice player. Smart, moves well off the ball, can hit the open jumper and attacks the rim some. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. His main criticism at Arizona was that he never made the leap into being a star -- into being the leader of the team. And I saw the same thing with the Rockets. Budinger is a nice player, but he just doesn't have "it" -- it being defined as the drive to absolutely win at all cost.

Budinger will hit some cold-blooded shots.. but he'll never take his man off the dribble in the final seconds. We're never going to be making him our number one option. He doesn't have those kinds of skills -- the skills needed to be an all-star player. Budinger looked great in his rookie year.. in our system. He's the perfect fit for it -- but let's not get that confused with all-star potential. Budinger benefitted greatly from Kyle Lowry because he was able to run the floor with him and finish breaks/hit spot up jumpers. I don't recall ever giving Budinger the ball on the wing and iso'ing him to get off his own shot.. which to me is a prerequisite for being considered amongst the league's best. Chase just doesn't have that killer instinct mentality to take his man 1on1 repeatedly and score at will -- he didn't have it in Arizona and I didn't see it last year. Budinger will be a great role player, but we're off our meds if we actually think he could be an all-star. Let's remember that Morey wanted to ship Budinger and McGrady off for Iguodala and Dalembert --- so I don't think Morey is as high on him as some of the posters here are either. (link before DD accuses me of making it up, again.)

Brooks on the other hand is more than capable of getting off his own shot and has shown the desire to want the ball in his hands in the final seconds to do just that. Brooks is the closest thing we have to an all-star.. Budinger shouldn't be in the discussion. He'll be a great role player for us, but nothing that should keep us from using him to acquire a potential star (Cousins).

 

I would rather trade one of Battier or Trevor for him...yes...

And LTF, you may be right, but you don't need alpha males at every position, you need guys that are willing to play their role and play it well.

Agreed about AB, I think he is close to all star level, and adding in Yao....I think Cbud is more important than Battier or Ariza.....

So, in order of importance to the Rockets, I rate the wings thusly.

1. Cbud
2. Shane
3. Trevor
4. Taylor

I would trade any combination of 2-4, but keep number 1 at all costs...unless we are getting a sure thing like Wall or Turner.

And while you say Cousins is a potential star, he is also a potential bust....again....don't trade quality for potential.....too much risk....trade cash, picks, or redundant players, don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

DD

 

you can't say that oden was a bust because lack of talent, it's just nikka is injury prone. was yao the wrong choice @ #1? talent is there, just injury prone.

 

Uh, a lot of us were saying how can you take Oden when Durant was there.....

DD

 

DD, I was only responding to the notion that Budinger has all-star potential. I certainly love Bud and agree that we don't need stars at every position.. we need players who know their roles and perform them well.

However, I disagree with you putting Bud over Ariza at this point. Ariza is much more advanced defensively, though Budinger is certainly more polished offensively. However, Ariza's offensive game really flourished when he was pushed back into less of a spotlight role -- I expect this to continue as Yao comes back and he can play off him. While his offensive game lags behind Budinger, that isn't to say it's non-existent (read: he's not Chuck Hayes).

Given the choice between offense and defense, I'll take defense every time (and the Celtics are showing us why). Especially on this Rockets team, where we have Brooks and Martin (two offensive minded guys and weak defensive players) in our starting five -- we need defense more than we need another shooter. Ariza should top your list, perhaps with Budinger to follow and Shane in third due to his advanced age/possible decline.

And re: your Budinger vs. Cousins argument -- nobody is going to trade one sure thing (Wall/Turner) for another sure thing that's less talented (Budinger) -- the only way you hit a homerun with draft day trades is to go off of potential. You're essentially scared of the risk involved.. but if you don't take risk, you'll be left with a team of role players. I'm okay with giving up my turn in craps to let Morey gamble -- he's on a hot streak! Here we go shooter!

 

I would trade Budinger all day if there was a shot at picking up low post talents like Favors, Cousins and Monroe. All day. A low post go to presence is very difficult to aquire. Chase is a fabulous player, but you can't build your team around him and he will never be a perrenial All-Star (I hope Im wrong).
In order of importance for the NOW (next season) rockets, I rate it at:
Battier
Ariza
Budinger
Taylor

 

from a talent perspective, you can make an argument that both players were equally talented. Let's also keep in mind that durant was given the reigns in OKC/Seattle. if you had stuck durant in portland, he has to fight touches from both brandon roy and from lamarcus aldridge. furthermore, if you look @ oden's per 36min numbers, they are all-star level. It's also a genuinely accepted rule that big men take longer to develop. Portland, imo, made the right choice. they are still in need of a big man, and don't tell me camby, cause camby wasn't there when they drafted him and from all standpoints, ppl know this is just a rental.