My thoughts on trading up to near the top of the draft

Budinger is the best small forward on the Rockets roster right now. Jus say'n.

 

Meh,

This team needs a LEAD dog, I am not against trading CBud for the right deal, but just trading up in the draft is not even close to the right deal.

If you get a legitimate NBA star player, sure.....but all we are doing in trading Cbud +14 to move into the top 6 is trading 2 for one.....and the one we would be getting might not be as good as either the proven NBA player or the one you get at 14....that is just stupid.

DD

 

Nice team, nice players. But, a stud is absolutely positively requisite; a Top 15 NBAer.

Is there a draftee who fits the bill? Turner? Favors? Cousins? If there is a prospective superstud and if Philly were determined to ransom Brand I would be ears open.

But, is there improvement on the 24th ... or thru a lop-sided $-oriented deal or SnT? I suspect we're looking for the latter.

Oh, I do not believe the #14 pick will be made for the Rox next Thursday.

 

These CBud fans are hilarious.. and not worth the effort to argue with. If you wouldn't trade Budinger for a top 10 pick in this draft, then I'm not really sure what to tell you.

It is funny to me though that suddenly Budinger is more of a "guarantee" than our veterans Battier and Ariza -- who have proven themselves for a longer time and on bigger stages.

 

Yeah, shame on people liking a HOUSTON ROCKET PLAYER on a Rocket's fan's website.

SHEESH !

I mean, the GM only says that CBud has all star potential, but nah, what does he know...I am sure you know more, right LTF?

DD

 

Yes, I believe Morey would trade him for a Top 10 pick.

I love Budinger. But it is pretty ridiculous to call him more proven than Trevor Ariza or Shane Battier, no? I mean, you're talking about guys who have been through the playoffs, guarded the best players.. and one who won the championship.

Chase Budinger.. was on a lottery team and came off the bench. He played great, but let's try to keep this in perspective folks. He's only played ONE year.. and averaged 9PPG in 20minutes while shooting 37% from downtown.. good numbers, but nothing that makes me think all-star. And I'm not even talking about his defense -- which is below-average. But somehow he's more proven than Ariza?

Let's keep it realistic, DD.

 

The difference between you and me, is that I believe he has just scratched the surface...whereas you seem to think that a 22 year old has peaked already.

I think Cbud will get better and better, much like AB did.....and will peak at all star or near all star level.

I don't see anything like that in the future for Shane and Trevor....

DD

 

I would trade Bud for a top 14 pick.

 

It's not so much that I think he's peaked, I just don't see this monumental leap forward. And the Brooks comparison is unfair -- Brooks played half a season as a rookie. We had no idea what he was capable of -- we traded for Bobby Jackson just so we wouldn't have to rely on him in pressure situations in the playoffs that year.

Budinger played the entire year in a system that was designed to be more up-tempo and fast-paced because we didn't have Yao Ming. That was the only way the Rockets would win -- play fast. And it worked.. sometimes. Budinger looked great in the transition game.. but he was noticably more effective with Lowry than he was with Brooks. And he probably had slightly inflated stats due to the tempo we played at, compared to if he was a rookie on the team the year before.

The thing is, nobody was clamoring for him to start over Ariza or Battier.. yet you're convinced he'll supplant them in the near future. I just don't see him supplanting Ariza anytime soon.. he's just not better than him.

Agree to disagree.

 

Rookie stats for you guys to chew on:

TMac 7.0 ppg 18mpg 45% FG .34 - 3pt%

A. Brooks 5.2ppg 11.8mpg .413 FG% 33% -3pt

Kevin Martin 2.9ppg 10.1mpg .385 FG% .200 3pt%

Compare those to Chase's rookie year:

8.9ppg 20.1 mpg 44% FG .369% 3pters

All of those 3 Rocket players averages got a lot better, so can Chase.

I think Chase has that type of abiltity.

People around here tend to forget that players improve a lot between years 1 and 3.....

DD

 

I would not trade Chase for a top 14 or necessarily even a top 10. Top 5 definitely, but after that how many great prospects are in this draft?

Remember also that 1st round picks cost more. Budinger, a 2nd rounder, is cheaper.

 

I like Chase but he will not get you a ring. You need a Durant-type or alpha dog to build around. Yao was our alpha-dog but I'm not sure he can make the parade happen anymore. That said - I think we are alpha-dogless. We have to gamble to try and get a young stud because most teams are not going to give them up - ever. And S-n-Ts are iffy if you don't already have the pieces to lure them in as we are seeing.

Chase-types will give you a 500 team but you have to swing for the fences to get the big dogs. Once you have the big dogs you then get your Chases which are much easier to get.

I don't want to be a 500 team. I want a parade. Even if we stink it up swinging and striking out, we get another chance another year. And assuming we don't trade our future picks, we stand a better chance every year of finally getting that player to build around.

This draft seems to have more than good pick. We need to move up to try and get a build around player (even if it means taking on Brand's contract). If we stay where we are or move down, I will see the Rockets as a team that just wants to be the best 500 club in the NBA.

 

Not sure why it has to be Chase that is the alpha dog, it could be Brooks or Martin along with Yao, but just for kicks.

Here are some alpha dog rookie stats for ya:

Kobe Bryant 7.6ppg 15.5mpg .417fg% .375% 3pters

Chauncey Billups 11.1ppg 25.4mpg .390 FG% .34% 3pters

Manu Ginobli 7.6ppg 20.7mpg .438FG% .345% 3pters

Danny Granger 7.5ppg 22.6mpg .462% FG .323% 3pt

Joe Johnson 6.3ppg 20.9mpg .439% FG .273% 3pt

Again, you guys are missing the fact that Chase was a rookie and did GREAT, and will only get better.

Chase had an OUSTANDING rookie year, and was getting better and better, if I am not mistaken he was averaging double figures at the end of the year and shooting very well.....that is AFTER the rookie wall.

That is a guy getting comfortable, and knowing he belongs, now his game will open up even more.....you guys wanting to trade him need to learn lessons from history...you don't trade Dale Ellis just as he is about to break out.....

Well you do if you are Dallas.....

I hope all these comparitive stats help a lot of you understand what I am saying, you DO NOT give up guys that are going to be really good for someone that might not even make it in the NBA.....ever.

DD

 

Hmmm? What comes to my mind regarding this whole subject of superstar vs. very good players, is the Detroit "blue collar" team that beat a superstar Laker team in 2004. Here's the rosters:

Lakers[15]
Head Coach Phil Jackson
Point Guard Gary Payton
Shooting Guard Kobe Bryant
Small Forward Rick Fox
Power Forward Karl Malone
Center Shaquille O'Neal
Reserve
Derek Fisher
Stanislav Medvedenko
Devean George
Kareem Rush
Horace Grant
Brian Cook
Bryon Russell
Luke Walton

Pistons[16]
Head Coach Larry Brown
Point Guard Chauncey Billups
Shooting Guard Richard Hamilton
Small Forward Tayshaun Prince
Power Forward Rasheed Wallace
Center Ben Wallace
Reserve Mehmet Okur
Corliss Williamson
Mike James
Elden Campbell
Lindsey Hunter
Darvin Ham
Darko Miličić
Tremaine Fowlkes

I guess you might make the case for Chauncey Billups being a superstar. But I think anyone comparing these two rosters would not expect the Pistons to win the series 4-1.

The Rockets have assets. Can they become a Detroit-like team with their current talent? I don't know. A lot really depends on Yao and whether or not he can return to his form before his injury AND how well he gets integrated into the offense. Does he slow things down? The team that played the second half of the season depended a lot on speed to score their points; both pure speed and getting up the court before the defense could get set. Yao will almost surely affect this process. Even with assets, there are unknowns that make decisions blurry.

 

Oops. The numbers beside each team are links to notes at the website where I got the team rosters. The recap of the series is interesting. Here's an interesting quote:

"At the end of the series, Al Michaels observed that the Lakers had Hall of Fame players, while the Pistons used players that nobody else wanted."

 

My point is that a lot of teams give up too early on alpha dog types of players, and pay for it later.

I am NOT saying Chase is going to become Kobe Bryant, but I am saying he is going to get a lot better.....and to trade a guy who is proven on an NBA level for a guy that might not ever make it at an NBA level is dumb.

DD

 

i dont think chase has the mental fortitude to be considered in that class of player. if i remember correctly that was the reason he slipped so dramatically on draft day - concerns about intelligence, desire, commitment, poor interviewing . . .