I've looked at the numbers & they just don't work, because Cato makes $6 mill & Shandon will probably get $4.5-6 mill. Dermarr makes just under $2.3 mill & what ever Nazr will be resigned for. However, the plus part intrigued me when I read this article about Atlanta needing a point guard desperately. So, the question that comes to mind is, would you include Moochie as the plus part, if you could get rid of Cato & acquire Nazr/Dermarr + whatever it would take to match the salaries? In other words: Shandon/Cato/Moochie for Nazr/Dermarr/whatever. I'm not endorsing the idea of trading Moochie, I'm just curious if anyone would consider the move to be beneficial to the Rockets. http://nba.com/hawks/news/vancouvertrade_010627.html?nav=ArticleList <em>"We acquired two first-round picks and Shareef out of this draft," Babcock said. "We feel pretty good about it." Babcock said his next priority is landing a point guard with some size, probably through another trade. The Hawks have plenty of big men to offer up in a deal, including Alan Henderson, Chris Crawford, Cal Bowdler and Hanno Mottola. The Hawks have no intention of returning former first-rounder Jason Terry to the point. He struggled until a move to shooting guard, where he blossomed into the team's top scorer at 19.7 points.</em> ------------------ Nothing is impossible, if you believe it's possible.
Couple of things: Most of us have had this discussion before, but I will run it by summa ya'll again. In brief fashion. * Nazr and Shandon are free agents. They are in the drivers seat. Frankly Nazr will probably command a better contract than Shandon right now, if for no other reason than experienced pivot men are in a great demand. * Lopsided contracts with upside-down equity in a player's salary are common. Vin Baker, Big Country, etc... are all examples. Having Cato at only $6Million in comparison to some of the upside-downs out there is moot. Getting Cato traded has not been the problem as yet, getting something that will not harm our roster has been the problem. * Admittedly Dermarr, Mobes, Morris, Griff, Langhi, etc... all bunched up at the 2-3 spots is a problem that is a short one player trade away from solving. Most GM's dream of "problems" this simple to solve. CD/RT would be smiling all the way if that were the case. * The nature of the latest CBA when it comes to trades has shown us that Free Agency isn't as wild and crazy as it once was. Also, it has become axiomatic that involving third parties in a trade has great benefit for all concerned. I guess what I am saying is .... if a trade involved Cato/Shandon/Plus from the Rockets and the Hawks lost Nazr and Dermar .... well equating the two teams benefits doesn't make sense because in most cases these are not the only players or teams involved. (As I said I have no idea where these talks are at the moment. I suspect nowhere, as CD/Lindsey/RT/ etc are concentrating on Dream and MoTay. He is the key. Dream. Timewise.) * Just for the record, I do not sell or represent medical supply companies,etc. I am in the medical field and have been for a number of years. Presently, I am a medical-legal consultant and travel quite a bit. I have been involved in sports for a number of years. I know and speak frequently with sports-related people including sports med specialists, trainers, orthopedic surgeons as well as a couple of legal and personal agents who I have known for over twenty years. Cheers. ------------------
What's up Pops? Has Cato been working out this summer? I know he supposedly worked out last year. Has he done anything to warrant a return? ------------------ Fuggetabout it [This message has been edited by bigboymumu (edited July 09, 2001).]
Mr. Popeye... I frankly think that Dermarr flat-out sucks...last season he only got playing time at the end of blowouts for good reason: he can't defend at the 2 spot and has a very suspect jumper. I seriously doubt if he will ever be a playoff caliber NBA player. And Nazr Mohammed is marginal at best, definitely not worth giving out a contract of more than 3mil/yr. I would much rather see Cato/Shandon packaged to Chicago for Miller and change. You would think that Miller HAS to go since they have Curry now...plus Krause was never really hot on Miller in the first place... ------------------
Well, I like that Chicago connection also. A much better longterm thing and, maybe more importantly it does not cause ANY problems with our present roster. On another thought ..... Actually, I heard over the weekend where Loren Woods MAY be available in a move with Minnesota. They have a roster that perenially looks real good on paper but it will never improve unless they are willing to move some key people. Woods will not improve their team this year, or even next. They have some blatantly conflicting spots on that roster. Last year they played as good as they will ever be able to play with the personnel they carry. They need some changes. Everyone knows Croshere is available and we have been playing that tune with them for a while, although I think Rocket involvenment to acquire Croshere has been eliminated with our recent draft. More importantly, Loren Woods coupled with other FA moves could be a useful roster addition for us. Minnesota needs some inside weight. Jermaine O'N is not enough rotation after rotation. We will require only three pivots on this roster. Collier, Cato, with .... Hakeem? Nazr?, Robinson?, Jackson?, Todd McCulloch?, A Davis?, ..... Mmmmmmmmm ......... I could live with Hakeem (a veteran with a plethora of offensive and defensive aspects, although a health liability IMHO), with Jackson (legs like all get out and a great defensive game and an emerging offensive threat under the basket, he does not need touches), and with Woods ( offensive drive and set shot, below average defender and longterm upside coupled with a unsubtantiated health risk). I could live with that triple threat at the five. [Alternative: Nazr with a defensive bend in the middle, or retaining Collier's offense and his anticipated improved defensive presence would not hurt our overall production either.) All in all, these combos give the Rockets a nice blend of talent at the five spot. I could live with that. ------------------
I wish lazy ass Cato would have participated in the Summer League or RMR...we could have showcased him and gotten him a few 6block games to unload him on some gullable GM. With the ZONE coming up you would think teams are scrambling out there to find shotblockers who can sit in the lane for 48min straight... ------------------
I could not only live with that, I would be loving life............... However, what's the likelihood of that happening? Do you really think that's doable? ------------------ Gascon
oeilpere - I appreciate your thoughts, however, I'm not clear on your Jermaine O'N reference regarding Minnesota. Are you referring to Kevin G? In your opinion, what do you think we would have to give up to get Woods? I thought Houston could have made a move to pick up Woods in the second round, similar to the move they made to acquire T Morris. In addition, there is also a rumor that Orlando may not sign Haywood. ------------------
Pops, Couple of questions I'd like to ask: Do you know if Hakeem is back from his trip out of the country? It seems as if many of the top free agents are beginning to want to commit to teams, and I would hate for us to miss out on several waiting for Hakeem to come back. Along those same lines, have you heard anything about the progress of David Robinson's negotiations with the Spurs? The more I think about it, the more I would love to have the Admiral on this team. The question, however, is this: if Dream comes back with outrageous salary demands (9 mil plus), would the Rockets commit to David at that salary and let Hakeem walk? It would be a great basketball move, but a horrible PR move, and I didn't and still don't think the Rockets would have the guts to do such a move. You mentioned a sign and trade as a real possibility should Robinson want to go here. Do the Spurs have interest in taking back players such as Cato? Also, because we would be unloading a lot of salary in a S&T, do you believe there is any chance the Rockets could acquire David and Hakeem both? And, if so, do you believe either has the ego to start off the bench? I am considering it almost a given that Mo will be back in Houston. Finally, I'm still curious about Arvydas Sabonis. How cheap is cheap? 2-3 million per season? He would be an excellent pickup for that price... he can't play more than 15-20 minutes per game, but he's relatively healthy, has a huge body to clog the lane defensively, and he still is a pretty good offensive player. Were you just speculating about him on the Rockets, or do you have a reason to believe the Rockets actually have interest? ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited July 09, 2001).]
Swopa: I'll stand by my assessment. He runs all night long. Not super fast but he does not lag either. He has great legs in the third and fourth quarter. Despite any reporter's opinion. On the "doesn't need touches" thing was meant that we would nopt have to do anything other than our present gameplan to get him his touches. Nothing that he hasn't already been getting. He does not need to be fed all night long. He doesn't get first option in Golden State and he still gets 13+ppg. (He knows his role, which is basically what your quote emphasizes.) I could watch him slam it and make ~5-6 ppg out of his 13+ ppg by offensive put-backs. Another couple playing the weakside rush when they cover MoTay, or when they side press to stop Mobley or take the ball out of Steve's hands. He would not need to change his game to play our game. ------------------
I have a question for you as well Pops... Apologize that my question doesn't exactly follow this thread, but just wanted to know if you believe there is a chance EGriff may not evolve into more than a Joe Smith type player in the league, given their similar builds and games in college. I'm just scared as to whether he will be able to play either the 3 or 4 effectively and not just pan out as a dreaded 'tweener. I wasn't able to catch many of EG's games last year, so actually if anyone who did can shed some light on this - would be appreciated. ------------------
Hey Oeilpere, I don't want to seem like an ingrate or anything b/c I really love the info u r posting, it's just that I wrote some questions on the first page and I was hoping u could reply to it. I would appreciate it. ------------------
They will never sign Hakeem to $9-10 million for two years which is what he wants. If he steadfastly held us up, and would not budge CD may consider Robinson and I agree signing him may be a better move, especially if it was a limited contract(3-4 years) for Robinson. But they would never do it. I just can't see it. Not unless the public were thoroughly convinced that the talks were at a standstill and Hakeem was thye one holding up the future success of the franchise. It may still be a PR nightmare and they would not chance it IMHO. Spurs would not want Cato IMHO, but t6hat doesn't mean he could not be inc;luded somewhere. They do like Shandon and SA could do some duty as per the S. Elliot/D. Anderson spots. The intensity will pick up if D.Anderson decides to get serious looks elsewhere(which he is getting). Then Shandon becomes a very viable option. Samaki won't be back and they could use some help there. Personally if anything came about between the Spurs and the Rockets it would include another team and most assuredly include someone other than our favorite whipping boys (Cato and Walt with the proverbial "others"). If Hakeem would take a $6 Million figure, and live with Robinson making an $8-9Million figure it may be possible. But it is not likely. It would curtail a number of other moves or lack of moves. It would hurt some other signings .... but mmainly I do not think Hakeem would buy it. Robinson would aquiesce maybe, but, IMHO anyway, Hakeem is finding it harder and harder to play a team game. Certainly he has not consistently demonstrated to me a "team before individual" philoophy in the last two years.[/B][/QUOTE] Sabonis has spoken to a couple of teams. I don't think he and the Rockets have as yet. Sabonis wpuld be a long shot, but RT would do it. I know he would. The money is minimal. Frankly Sabonis will never play for Portland again. Period. It just will not happen. He will either retire or an emerging(ready to make a mark) team or a young team, or a team that requires kind of "a filler" at a particular (and predictable) opponent matchup ... like the Rockets, Minnesota, Toronto, or Milwaukee ...will get him cheap. Don't be surprised if he takes $1-2Million especially if it is a successful (Lakers)or emerging team (Kings/Bucks) or a young team (Rockets). ------------------
Oeilpere, I know that the players & coaches like Walt, but with the new zone defense coming this year, is there any interest from other teams in acquiring him & his $5 mill contract? If so, what kinds of deals do you think could be made? ------------------ Nothing is impossible, if you believe it's possible.
I think initially they thought he would retire. Regardless of that the direction the team is taking, appears to be opposed or direct opposition to Hakeem's role. RT/CD and Hakeem spoke several times just prior to the end of the season. CD was of the opinion Hakeem would NOT be here come 2001-2002 season. RT is pretty laid back and frankly I don't think he gave it much thought near the end. I think,my opinion only, that RT was surprised Hakeem chose to stay. RT would love to have Hakeem in our game plan though. But the reality is .... we cannot and will not pay him $10 million in a two year contract. Les will not do that. I know this. Unless something outrageously crazy happens like he sells the team, or has a heart fart, Les will not buy Hakeem 20 big ones over two years. Period. IMHO,if Hakeem gets a great deal elsewhere, and that team wants a sign and trade, he would do it. From watching Hakeem lately I would say he would not agree unless it was absolutely necessary to him getting his money. Remember Hakeem's biggest hole card is not the contract itself but the bind it puts the Rockets in by dragging his feet. The longer he waits (Going to Middle East (his annual pilgrimage was rescheduled to include that first date of July 1), being "unavailable", having his agent "unavailable"), the harder it is for us to make other necessary moves. Fred Hoiberg We have more backup SG than we can shake a stick at. Francis,Mobes,Morris and they have Langhi playing SG in the summer leagues. Griff will even get some minutes there. Shandon has not been discarded yet, and as a matter of fact may be closer to a Rockets deal than pre draft. Should I mention who his agent is?????????? Etan Thomas - I agree that they were greatly interested in him last year. But RT has a rule. Well, he has several, but this one is the most appropriate here .... When you get a rotation spot, how you consistently play determines if you keep it, only you can lose it. KT has done nothing to lose his back-up role. ET has not done nothing to earn one (even on the team he signed with). Unless it was a major trade and these two were added for filler, that is the only way I can see ET replacing KT. Jerome Williams - I would pee my pants if we were able to get him, but Toronto is likely to keep him. Everyone from Miami to San Antonio has talked to him. He is a swift, muscular PF/C who showcased himself with tons of effort in the playoffs. I saw him listed at 6' 19" and 6'10" but who knows. The press kits on his introduction had him as 6'9". His "growth plates" (as you referred to them) is a recognizable demarcation at the ends of long bones. It shows the clear line between new growth and previous growth. It does not "need room" as you stated. Growth in atheletes is slightly different than others. Due to a number of factors, some athletes coontinue to grow taller after the median age for growth has been met. IMHO, most tall athletic, 18 - 20 year olds will grow another inch or two. So to answer your question = I don't know if he will get taller, but it is in all likelihood he could hit 6'10 or even 6'11 within a couple of years. ------------------
pippen: These are the things that bother me about Eddie Griffin. 1. We the fans start expecting a big team turn around (another 10 wins) singularly due to his signing. It will not happen. That amount of expectation centered on a single team member usually starts early criticism. I think he will contribute this first year, but he will not be as spectacular(team success-wise) as some surmise. 2. He is a bit sullen. Michael Dickerson was a little like that. KT remains as close-mouthed as ever. Cato usually has a scowl his face, especially if Cato has double pumped a slam and someone did not move out of his way,causing him to actually have to work for the FG. Glare,glare at the ref ...... ohhhhhh Cato's upset. Yawn. Eddie is a young guy and somewhere along the line he has got to start generating some fun and demonstrting that to the other guys and fans. A moot point, but I don't think I have yet learned to appreciate grimace faced multi-millionaire athletes on the Rockets. Especially one that has such high expectaions thrown at him by well-meaning fans and press. 3. The biggest hurdle a newbie NBA'er must get over is realizing he is NOT the center of attention (read that as "plays called for him as the first option"). Most athletes that begin an elevated career have had years of "first option" in everything from who sits where on the bus, to who gets to swing the rock with 5 seconds left in the game. I hope Griff can handle it. 4. The final thing is not about him as much as it is the staff. there is no doubt that we worked hard (and also with a little luck thrown in) parlayed our picks to get the cream or close to the cream of the draft. But it does not stop there. We still have to decide about Hakeem. We still have to decide about the PF position. We still have to sign Mooch. We have glaring holes that still need to be filled. How (and maybe more importantly when) we accomplish these tasks will point directlky at what kind of a season we can expect. As it stands right now we are lottery bound. (BTW that is an ugly nick, did you lose a bet somewhere along the line? LOL) ------------------
oeilpere, Do you see Griffin eventually becoming our 4 with Morris or Langhi becoming our starting 3 at some point in the next couple of years. Also, do you see Rudy using any small ball line ups this year that could have Griffin at the 5. Thanks I allways enjoy your posts. crash ------------------
Hey Pops...no bets lost! I kinda like it actually....every time I log on I am cheerfully reminded of what a little b^tch pippen is and was with his behavior through the years. I couldn't think of a better UserName even now... ------------------
oeilpere, It is probably early to have a cutoff date in mind for Hakeem to sign, but i assume that RT/CD have this in the back of their mind w/ regards to maybe the Atlanta scenario. Any info? I am a big Hakeem fan, but I agree w/ you that it is highly likely that he will miss 20+ games next season. He did get his money on the last contract, though, and I would lean towards the Rockets future instead of his this time around. I think that RT/CD feel the same about the future of the franchise. Hakeem carried the championship for RT, but RT was around before,and will be after, Hakeem and biz is biz. ------------------