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My problem with Ming

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Juugie, May 3, 2002.

  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I would take him with the 1st pick. There are not very many 7'5" guys who can move and shoot and rebound.

    The Rocks have enough small talented players, now we need some 6'8" or above players to compliment our midgets.

    DaDakota
     
  2. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    No team can take the chance that they pass up a future 7'5" all star...a GM will lose his job if they pass on Ming and he turns out to be great. From what Ive read, Jerry West is trying to figure out a way to get Ming and that speaks volumes.
     
  3. GATER

    GATER Member

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    My 2 cents:

    1) There is only one Shaq and a low post presence like his only happens about once a decade. If you don't have the #1 pick for that one-time shot...too bad.

    2) Mark Eaton didn't postup much. He just tried to stay out of Malone and Dantley's way. Eaton's height caused major problem for finesse type offensive players (including Dream).


    Rik Smits in his prime would be a solid addition to next years Rockets. Regarding Ming? Just pick him
     
  4. Scarface

    Scarface Supremely FocASSed
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    I believe you.. I go to a lot of Pac-10 games and have seen this baffoon play. He's like a poor poor poor mans Felton Spencer. Oh well...
     
  5. Shot caller

    Shot caller Member

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    Ming is going to need to go to a team with a very developed offense. Some place where it will be easy for him to fit in. WAng is doing OK in Dallas because they have givien him a narrow role ans slowly are letting him fill it out. It is going ot be hard for someone who has never played NBA or American hoops and can't speak any English.
    The rockets are still trying to "find" themselves as a team, Wang would be lost. I think the Wang needs to go to a team that just needs to add a component to an already established system.
     
  6. JR

    JR Member

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    heypartner, if Ming needs someone to develop an offense for him like Wooden did with Kareem, he sure as hell better avoid Houston, where Rudy T will station him out at the 3-point line along with rest of the players not named Francis or Mobley . . .
     
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    JR,

    While the UCLA Cut was invented by Wooden, it is a very simple play like a PnR that can be the foundation of an offense just like the PnR. Imagine an inverted PnR. The picker has the ball and the guard run around him, intead of the picker setting the pick for a ballhandler. Every team in the NBA has it in their playbook, whether they use it in games is dependent on the playmaking ability of their big men. It is a staple like the PnR, and that is why they ran Ming through that drill in Chicago.

    Don't take any personal offense to this: but I have to say that if you don't know what a high post cut drill is, maybe you shouldn't be criticizing Rudy.
     
    #47 heypartner, May 6, 2002
    Last edited: May 6, 2002
  8. JR

    JR Member

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    HP, you've made my point for me. I'm certainly aware of the many, many things an offense can do with a high post, including the high post cut, partially because I was the play-by-play voice of the Princeton Tigers for 4 years and had the pleasure of watching a team with a real offense that utilized all 5 players and particularly the center (and without relegating him to the low block). My problem is, based on what I've seen for the last 10 years of RocketBall, I highly doubt that Rudy is aware of offensive options and schemes like this, as simple (and effective) as they may be.
     
  9. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    JR,

    As I said, don't take this personally, but coaching criticism is obnoxiously easy, especially from "play-by-play" men like you.

    You being play-by-play has nothing to do with the coaching ability of Rudy, Larry Smith, CD, and Jim Boylen. And it further has nothing to do you presuming this coaching staff has never seen one of the most populer plays in all of basketball. You making a big deal about this just leads me to believe that the rarity of finding big men to run the UCLA Cut prevents you from realizing that every coach and every coached player knows this drill and how to run it. Plus, every defense knows how to defend it.

    You further accept the truth that Carlisimo ran Ming through this drill in a freaking try-out, but assume Rudy and his staff don't know how to use it.

    I dare you to go tell Rudy that he can't coach a UCLA Cut. Do you realize this is widely considered a singular play like a PnR is, and the success is about the big man playmaker's ability, not the coach. Without the big man passer/shooter, NBA teams use it sparingly. Malone ran it with Kirilenko this year, for instance.

    The Rockets have done the "simple" high post cut in every preseason the last three years and some in the 1st quarter of regular season. Why don't we run it regularyly then, or other teams? Who do you advise to run that.....Hakeem Olajuwon? Mr. Throw It To Me in the Low Post Because That Is What Basketball Is All About. Or Cato. Or Barkley who is only 6'5 on a good night.

    Fact is: we have ran it with Carlos Rogers and Kenny Thomas, but with lame success, because thye had/have no turn and shoot threat, so their defender can just sag on the cutting guards. The UCLA Cut is not magic, and it is not the all to end all. But with a super tall passer/shooter, it can be devastating. and btw....Princeton, like Indiana, use a high post center who can shoot within their motion. They don't run the UCLA cut as a staple. UCLA was not what I'd call motion.
     
    #49 heypartner, May 8, 2002
    Last edited: May 8, 2002
  10. JR

    JR Member

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    You're right about one thing, HP, and that is, it's very easy to criticize Rudy T. The fact that I've never seen Rudy run the UCLA cut is just emblematic of the utter lack of any imagination -- or, to be more precise, diversification with respect to Rudy's offense. I suppose it's someone else's fault that Jason Collier has never run the UCLA cut as a Rocket. He is a center who can turn and shoot a free throw.

    On the larger point, why don't you go ahead and tell me what a great job Rudy T did this year? He really did well with those rules changes. I didn't see the Rockets using any innovative approaches on defense, and he sure as hell didn't adjust to the pseudo-zones that teams were running to combat the francis and mobley one-on-one show.

    Frankly it blows my mind that someone with your obvious appreciation for technical basketball can even stomach Rudy Tomjanovich.
     
  11. Juugie

    Juugie Member

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    Rudy definately has his strong points, but he is stubborn about his offense. That's why we lost to Seattle 15 times in a row. Seattle basically came up with a way to stop Rudy's play and dared him to do something else. He never did. They knew no matter what come the fourth quarter Rudy would run Hakeem on the low block and try to let him pass out to the shooters. They had that play scouted so well that it would almost always end up in a forced shot steal or turnover. In Horry game four of the 95-96 playoffs, Horry and Cassell basically freelanced us back from a twenty point lead in the fourth quarter to get us into overtime. What did Rudy do? He went right back to the same play that had gotten us beat fourteen times in a row and promptly ended the season. Even Hakeem said we need to try something different. Rudy responded by, you've got to trust the system.

    Much like his way of defending the pick and roll. Which gets us killed. He doesn't want the post man to jump out on the shooters in fear of giving up a layup. For some reason, he doesn't force the man away from the pick and towards the baseline. Rudy's way is to go under the pick and pray the guy misses an open jumper.

    Not very good defense. If you look at the majority of the Rocket's defensive problems, you will find poor defense of the pick and roll to blame.
     

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