Wang absolutely does pefer the perimeter. Even the articles that praised him stated that he was fluid outside but his inside skills were raw. Why would a 7'5 guy be better outside than inside if that wasn't where he wanted to play? As far as him being dominant everywhere, I ask you this. If you were to forget his height for a second. Take his same game and say he was 7"1 or 7"2 even. Would you be saying the same things? I don't think so. He'd be just another perimeter oriented shooting big man. But because of those extrat three inches, you think he's going to dominate. Every picture I've ever seen of Ming playing in China has him playing aginst guys that don't even come up to his shoulder. It reminds me of a guy playing ball against his little brother. He're schooling all the little kids and thinks he's got game until he plays against people closer to his size. Please don't underestimate the fact that the stiff blocked his shot. If he can get to it, what makes you think Robinson, Mourning, Mutombo, La Frentz, Shaq, Mc Dyess, Olowakandi, or other can't get to it? Or bother it? So don't think it's just going to be throw the ball to Ming and watch he toys with the other centers and puts the ball in the basket. The other thing, Ming and Wang were comparible in China. Granted Ming was supposedly better, but not that much better. Wang can shoot the three and has some nice outside moves as well. Not to mention Wang's team did a lot more winning than Ming's. What makes anyone believe that Ming is so much better than Wang that while Wang has struggled in the NBA, Ming will come over and dominate it? Oh, I forgot. 7'5.
Scarface, Excellent. You made my point about Kareem. There was a big misconception that he was just a finesse player wanted to shoot from 10-18 feet out, just like juugie is saying about Ming. And this was exacerbated by how he hated going against Dave Cowens and Wilt. Fact is, John Wooden invented a revolutionary offense specifically for Jabbar called the UCLA cut, utilizing him in the high post as a picker with the ball. Hell, Bill Walton and Sabonis ran offenses out of the high post UCLA cut as well. Are they not Warriors. Is there anyone here who remembers Walton destroying the leauge with his high post passing and 15-17' range! I read a journalist recently who said no perimeter shooting centers ever did anything. That is SOOOOOOOOOOO hogwash. Only the ones who couldn't pass peaked at Bill Laimbeer or Rik Smits stats, which is still a lot. The ones who could pass and shoot ran high-post offenses, and often (if not, always) won titles. Mark these words!!! There is now way Ming is a bust. He is at least as good as Rik Smits (who gave Patrick Ewing fits in the playoffs) and at best an excellent high post passer with a shot. Do NOT underestimate the offensive juggernauts that can be created around high-post passing 7'ers with shooting range. I don't care what any journalist says...that combination has proven to anchor a few revolutionary offenses in the past, to say the least.
This is a fun exercise in basketball logic. Let's see how many stars in the NBA we can rip away 3-4 inches and discuss how effective they would be. dude, NO ONE, I mean NO scout or coach or player or analysts EVER makes a player analysis based on imagining what someone would be like 3-4 inches shorter. Hmmm. imagine if Shaq was only 6-9 like Karl Malone!!!! No one. never haven't seen it never read it Musburger never did it Walton,,,,no? anyone....anyone...anyone ever discuss taking 3-4 inches away from a player to analyze them Hmmmm. If Mobley was 6'8, would we be talking about benching him??? hmmmm
I think you could say his playoff performance was a warrior's effort averaging 30 pts 20 rbs etc after vowing to win the championship perfect shooting performances and all Ming and Gasol is one very scary thought
You could take away those 3-4 inches, and he'd still be in the higher echolon (sp?) of C's in the league. Because he has excellent offensive skills, inside and out. In China, you learn to play inside and out, no matter how tall you are. That's why Wang has it, that's why all Europeans have at LEAST some sort of perimeter game. Think back to Vlade Divac. He can hit the 3 ocasionally. But the fact of the matter is, he DOES have that extra 3-4 inches. I know for a fact that Ming likes to dunk. WHile you prefer to say 'you don't think so'. I think we have someone from China on the board who's seen Ming play quite a bit. Maybe he can answer these questions for you. He's better outside because he doesn't have the experience against tougher inside players, which is why I think it will take him a whole seaosn to start dominating. About Ming and Wang being comparable. Well, consider Ming's age at the time. it's been 2 years. So he was 19 I think. Plus, Wang's team was like the Lakers last season. His cast was INCREDIBLY superior to Ming's. Isn't that worth considering at all? In the end, he is still a rookie, and he does need developing like every other player out of the draft. But he will be much better than them, at the weakest position in the NBA. That's exactly what we can use.
I see Yao as a young Sabonis in a sense. And IMHO if Sabonis was 10 years younger or if it was Sabonis in his Prime vs. Shaq right now, Sabonis would've dominated him.
non-professional scouts (us) using a ONE-On-ONE game as a scouting tool = NOT ENOUGH INFO!!! How is a one on one game supposed to tell us anything? I think the drills told us more than that little matchup. Also, that "stiff" is only a couple of inches shorter than ming. Think of all of the "shorter" players who have blocked the shot of a guy bigger than them. Isn't that what made russell special for the celts back in the day, and wallace now? All in all, we can talk all we want, but until we see ming in game action against comparable size and talent, it's all petty drivel and heresay.
If Kenny Thomas was 3 inches taller, he would be one of the better PFs in the league. If Cuttino Mobley was 3 inches taller, the Rockets would not have had ANY chance of getting him. Yao Ming was practically born to play for the Rockets. He is EVERYTHING we need rolled into a 7'6'' package. He instantly solves the center solution. He instantly solves the imbalance in the offense that was caused by no interior passing. He instantly makes Steve and Cuttino's defense a lot better. He instantly sells season tickets. He instantly fulfills Rudy's interest in a shooting center. Who here does not get chills with the thought of Griffin and Ming blocking shots? Or Ming's unblockable jumpshot being wide open because teams had to worry about Francis and Mobley penetrating and dishing to Griff? I'd guarantee every guard in the NBA would dread playing the Rockets.
Jerry West said he won't be a big shotblocker. I do disagree, but Jerry West would know better. When you're 7'6, short arms aren't that big an issue, are they?
Does anyone know how Stiff Christofferson blocked Ming in the tryout last week? I mean I'm reading about how unblockable Ming is, yet he was blocked by a poor man's Jason Collier last week...
1999 & 2001 Oregon Most Improved Player CAREER NOTES: Comes into the season ranked 12th in career blocks at Oregon with 37. Needs just two more to climb into the top 10. 2001-02: For the first time in his career, spent summer concentrating entirely on basketball and attended the Pete Newell Big Man’s Camp. Made impressive contributions in spots as a junior, but needs to bring that intensity to every game as a senior. A big season from Christoffersen could push the Ducks into the upper division of the Pac-10. 2000-01: Would have been an all-league performer if every game had been against UCLA. Averaged 11.0 points, 9.5 rebounds and 2.0 blocks per game in two battles with the Bruins last season. Also shot seven-of-12 from the floor (.583). On the season, played in 22 games. Ranked sixth on the team in rebounding at 2.5 per game. Scored in double figures twice, including a career-high 15 at UCLA on Jan. 27 (to go with seven rebounds), where he hit four-of-five from the floor and seven-of-nine at the free throw line. Netted 11 points in a Jan. 20 win over Washington State. Grabbed a career-high 12 rebounds vs. UCLA on Feb. 22. Played a key role in Dec. 30 Louisville win with seven rebounds. Tied a career high with three blocks in Feb. 1 win vs. Arizona. Averaged 9.0 minutes per game with 11 games of 10 minutes or more. Played a career-high 22 minutes in the Feb. 22 UCLA game. Named the team’s Jesse Nash Most Improved Player for the second time in his career. 1999-00: Sparked team in appearances with his physical inside presence and aggressive play in reserve role. Played in 14 games and saw double figures in minutes four times, including key conference showdowns against Stanford and Arizona State. For the season, shot 71.4 percent, hitting 15-of-21 attempts. Gave team a much needed boost in 76-74 win against Arizona State when he contributed 10 minutes, grabbed three rebounds and blocked three shots. Against Stanford, connected on both of his attempts from the field en route to five points, and blocked three shots in only nine minutes on the court. Notched 10 points (five-of-six field goals) and three rebounds in 11 minutes vs. Northern Arizona. Was perfect from floor (four-of-four FG) for 10 points in 12 minutes against St. Martin’s at home. 1998-99: Played sparingly in the first half of the season but saw more playing time and gained confidence as the season wore on. Picked up six points and two rebounds in 13 minutes versus Brigham Young in his best outing of the season. Had six points and four rebounds in another fine outing vs. St. Martin’s. Saw his most playing time (12 minutes) in a conference game and responded with two points and four rebounds along with two blocks versus Washington State and followed that with six points and one rebound against Washington as well as a blocked shot. Added six points and three rebounds in 12 minutes versus Wyoming in the second round of the NIT and had a season-high seven points versus California in New York. Named team’s Jesse Nash Most Improved Player. BEFORE OREGON: The Dane earned first team all-league honors and second team all-CIF Southern Section as a senior, averaging 15.0 points, 9.0 rebounds and 5.0 blocks at Nordhoff High School in Ojai, Calif. Christoffersen averaged 17.4 points, 14.0 rebounds and 6.0 blocked shots as a junior. He recorded a triple double with 33 points, 17 rebounds and 10 blocks in a game late in the 1996-97 season. PERSONAL: Born Chris Tarsker Christoffersen, August 13, 1979, in Roenne, Denmark. Parents are Aksel and Helle Sonne. Is the first-ever native of Denmark to play for the Ducks. High School (Coach): Nordhoff (Jim Hall). Majoring in Sociology. Chris Christoffersen Career Statistics Year G-S Min. FG-A Pct. 3FG-A Pct. FT-A Pct. OR DR TR Avg. PF-DQ A TO B S Pts. Avg. 1998-99 22-0 130 17-40 .425 0-0 .000 8-21 .381 10 13 23 1.0 1-0 0 15 8 2 42 1.9 1999-00 14-0 93 15-21 .714 0-0 .000 12-26 .462 9 11 20 1.4 24-1 1 10 13 0 42 3.0 2000-01 22-0 199 27-67 .403 0-0 .000 18-42 .429 27 28 55 2.5 53-5 2 18 16 1 72 3.3 Totals 58-0 422 59-128 .461 0-0 .000 38-89 .427 46 52 98 1.7 78-6 3 43 37 3 156 2.7 This guy is no Jason Collier. how many people are 7'3 and 300lbs? He's quite a good shotblocker too. In one-on-ones, both players can block shots. It doesn't matter who you are. But in a game, it's a different story.
One on One situations take away one of Ming's greatest assets-his passing skills. Christofferson is bigger than basically everyone not named Shaq in the league. It is MUCH easier to block a shot in a one on one situation. You know your opponent is going to shoot it. Ming strikes me as an off the ball shot blocker. Nonetheless, if Eddie Griffin and Yao Ming were to be on the court together, shots would get blocked. A lot of them.
The fact that we are even arguing about one block shot in a tryout is ridiculous. Heh, didn't Mugsy Bogues block Patrick Ewing once in an actual game? Amazing that Ewing still was a good center despite of that
I've had the oppurtunity to play with "Stiff" Christoferson at the rec since i go to UofO and let me tell you from experience Christoferson is NO GOOD. I'm sure he wasn't trying his hardest but he was super slow and clumsy too. The bad part is he would get upset when somebody scored on him or when he missed easy shots...
With everyones opinion, if the Rockets had a chance to take Ming, I think they should do it or they can use that high pick and go later after Marcus, a "true center". regardless, we need to upgrade the 3 and the 5 spots on this team. I'm not starting trouble, but some of the same things were said about Bradley about being able to run the floor,pass, and what not. People will still take a chance on guys like this because other than Shaq, he would be a force with his size.
1) I have never heard that Ming prefers the perimeter...I HAVE heard that his perimeter skills are a lot more advanced than his post skills, but there is an easy answer to why that is...competition. It is a LOT easier to hone your shot and handle alone, or against inferior competition than it is to work on your post game. At this point, given his physical package and the lower level of his competition, Ming has never had to advance much in that regard to dominate inside, which is what I have consitently heard he has done. He has been able to just dunk over people... The fact that he has shown great peimiter skills for a big man tells me that he is a worker ( no Communist pun intended ) , and that if there is one way to predict his future development, I would say that his work ethic bodes well...Of course, there is no guarentee, but there rarely is. Questions abounded about Hakeem when he came in...is he too raw? Will he ever develop? Mourning...is he too short to play such a physical game? And it goes on and on....And Ming is no Hakeem...but he is probably the best prospect 5 to come along since Shaq, and that's a chance I'd take in a heartbeat. Yeah, he might be Bradley with a little more skill, but frankly, there's not that much between Bradley and the better non-Shaq 5's in the league right now, and more skill might just get it done. 2) Hakeem was one of the warriors mentioned, and he was a center. 3) I don't think you can construe too much from the comments Ming may or may not have made, what with the whole language/cultural barrier...was he trying to be funny? Was he misquoted/interpreted? There are too many variables to draw conclusions... 4) As someone else pointed out, there are different kinds of 'warriors'...Joe Dumars was one of the toughest players I've ever seen, but he was quiet and soft-spoken, never demonstrative.
Very interesting thread, Juugie. And its nice to see a discussion that stays intelligent and civilized, everyone deserves a pat on the back. IMHO, if Ming is available to the Rocks and he's their man, I say draft him. I don't think he'll be a bust, nor is he as big a project as the 'experts' believe. However, I also don't know if he'll ever be a superstar, All-NBA level C. As heypartner pointed out, he'll probably be at least as effective as Smits, which would be great for the Rocks and about 26 other teams. I'm more worried as to how Ming would fit in the Rocks' "system." If they dust off the "spread the floor, isolate Dream, I mean, Ming on the block, kick out to 3pt shooters" offense they won 2 championships with because they have an offensive-minded C again, OH BOY! But that's for another thread.
