I don't want to come across as the official Ming hater but... I think a lot of people on this board and around the country see 7'5 and shooting skills, put the two of them together and think dominant. Unstoppable. I mean Ming will just tower over these other guys and put the ball in the basket and block all their shots because he's 7'5 - with very short arms might I add. The thing is, there are lots of players in the league with great physical tools, but to be dominant, it takes a certain mind set. You have to be a warrior. You can't back down from any thing or anyone. A 6'7 guy just led the league in blocks and rebounds against players a lot taller than him. Why? Because anyone that has ever seen him play can tell you that Ben Wallace is a warrior. He's going to fight you buzzer to buzzer. He will NEVER back down. Not from Shaq. Not from anyone. Reggie Miller is not quick and can't jump, but the guy just gets it done. Once again - warrior. Larry Bird - warrior. Magic Johnson - warrior Michael Jordan - warrior Hakeem - WARRIOR I don't want the number one pick in the draft saying "I don't want to play Shaq. He's too strong. This isn't football. He should be in the WWF." WTH? Can you imagine Kenyon Martin saying that? (Who's not even 7 feet by the way?) Or Charles Barkley? Or Moses Malone? Or any other great player. And Kenyon Martin is not even a great player yet. The truth is, Ming is a 7'5 small forward who wants to hang on the perimeter and shoot jumpers. Although he was supposedly a better talent than Wang Zhi Zhi, Wang dominated him in the Chinese championship games. Wang's team won six championships in a row. Ming's won one - and I think Wang was already in the NBA then so he didn't play. Ming reminds me of Brad Sellers from the early Chicago teams. A seven footer that could run and shoot that everyone always wondered why he wasn't better than he was given his physical abilities. That's the last thing the Rockets need. The Rockets need a warrior. A fighter. A battler. Someone with fire and heart. From what I've seen and read so far, Ming ain't it.
Good point, and an interesting post, Juugie. Thumbs up! Which of the centers do you think has that fire in the belly?
For one thing, there aren't many BIG MEN with great physical tools to be dominant. Sure, there are clowns like Ostertag, or Shawn Bradley or something. But none of the big men (260+ lbs) in the league have any quickness, or stamina. Shaq has both... 2nd, if Ben Wallace is 6 ft 7, I must be 3 ft 9. Wallace is 6 ft 9, and maybe even 6-10. Regardless, he's a bad mofo on the boards and on defense. The thing is, that if Wallace were asked to score points as well, his rebounding and shotblocking totals would probably be lower. I haven't seen Ming play, so I don't know if he has the aggresion that the Rockets desperately need.
The thing that concerns me about Ming is the fact that he hasn't been a great rebounder and banger against American competition. He really needs to be on a team that has a rebounding PF (like Denver) so he doesn't have to be relied on as a rebounder (at least not early in his career). So, we're not exactly on the market for athletic big men who can rebound (Cato).
I agree... But it's not like the Rockets have enough options to be picky with their C. What other rebounding C is available?
while i somewhat agree with your stance on needing toughness, i have to disagree with your pre-judged views of Yao Ming. not that i am an avid supporter but how do you know the kind of mental aspect he brigns? some players are silent warriors. it has taken him alot of patience, perseverence, and character to even get the oppurtunity to play in the NBA in the United States. something tells me you have never read more than a few articles on his workouts, much less stepped out on the floor or read a post game interview. i think your pre judgement that he is soft and does not have toughness is downright biased and unfair. i think you ought to give Yao a chance before you make such certain judgements. what if i was to say "Jason Williams is going to choke all his career" because he missed that free throw against Indiana? give Yao a chance, then analyze what his career will be like. most likely we draft Caron Butler who is a very tough player in a realistic scenario. just my 2cents.
The fact that he is 7'5 and is more comfortable playing on the perimeter speaks volumes about his toughness in my opinion. The fact that the stiff gave him one shoulder knocked him back and scored did also.
Ming said that? I think Yao´s to much of a gamble. At least with the no. 1 pick. But hey, if he´s available at #5.
True, but C isn't our only area of concern, we also have to worry about the 3. Why not take a 3 that gives us all the things we want than try to stretch it and draft a 5 just because he's better than what we have right now? Not many teams have a great C, so its not as important that we have a really good one, but having scrubs at the 3 gets us killed by opposing teams (especially since we don't have a defensive stopper for other teams top backcourt players). Woods or Butler would both give us athletic SF's with 3pt range, some rebounding, and very solid defense.
"The fact that he is 7'5 and is more comfortable playing on the perimeter speaks volumes about his toughness in my opinion. The fact that the stiff gave him one shoulder knocked him back and scored did also." so i guess the fact that magic johnson was a 6'10 PG makes him not tough eh? but wait hes on your "warrior" list. and larry bird was a 6'9 guy that played outside 90% time as well. yet he's on your "warrior" list as well. even hakeem himself played on the perimeter sometimes. And that must make Dirk Nowitizki a pansy because i see him on the perimeter as well alot. so i guess tim duncan is a soft stiff because last year shaq dunked on him n bumped him a few times. and it was ONE PLAY IN ONE GAME. your definition of toughness is strange. just because yao isnt in the ben wallace mold or type of game does not make him any less tough.
The GREAT thing about Ming is he could easily take on the nickname Ming the Merciless and that rules!!!
All of the players you mentioned have/had better low post games than Yao and none of them played center. Neither Magic, Bird, nor Hakeem would hesitate to get in the paint and mix it up. Magic scored over 40 in game seven his rookie year when he had to fill in for Kareem at center. And I'd bet if you put Hakeem out of college against that stiff, never even would have given up a point. The stiff might not have even gotten off a shot. And he damned sure wouldn't have shoved him under the basket and scored on him. And Nowitski's a great offensive player, but I've never heard anyone describe him as a warrior or tough. Every teeam in the league would love to let Yao sit out at the three point line and shoot threes all day. They would figure, if he beats us by hitting threes then we deserve to lose. What people don't want is a strong post player getting to the rim. Getting fouls on their interior players and dominating the paint. And it's not just me. That's from the New York Post. Here's another one. Compare that to this about Amare Stoudemire. That's more like it! I'm not saying we should draft Amare - definitely not at #5. But those are the things I want said about the man I want at center. Sounds more like a warrior.
Well put, Juugie. I'm not sure I agree with you, but you made an interesting argument. I hope we're in the position of worrying about whether or not to take Ming, Williams, or ??? when the time comes. We could use the good luck!
It is pretty difficult to show that much intensity in that kind of a workout. Playing one on one with someone does not illustrate the fire and competitiveness one possesses.
If I was CD I would contemplate deeply about picking Yao Ming if Qyntel Woods really impresses and is still on the board. Because I have seen Woods play, and...well....just take my word for it.
This whole argument is baseless in my opinion. You;ve seen him play once, in a one on one matchup for 45 minutes (which we only saw bits and snipits of) and then read some articles. I could easily fin just as many articles that support him. ESPN's main one after the workout was titled "Ming Wow's NBA Exec's." Dawson had very very kind words about him. Every player is different and unique. Undoubtedly, Ming has a fluid outside game, especially for his size. But I see him posting up as well, as he did do against Christofferson. Most reports I read of that meeting said Ming dominated, although Christofferson had a few good plays and Ming still has to make some adjustments to the NBA game. I don't expect him to dominate, but I do expect him to score 12-16, board 8-12 and block 2-4 in 30 mins or so a game in the first year, and improve from there. Additionally, an aspect a lto fo people aren't thinking about is his passing - he is apparantly a very good passer and I wouldnt be surprised to see him have a decent number of assists. I don't expect Stoudamire (Amare) to get to that level for a few seasons. I see no attitude problems, either. He wants to prove that he can play on the NBA level and he wants to win. His statement about Shaq was accurate, too, and, to me, just shows that he understands who is dominating the NBA right now and how he is doing it.
The thing is. . . I don't think anyone expect Ming to lead us just be a very good cog How many WARRIORS surrounded the warriors you talk about? Francis is a Warrior Cuttino is a Warrior we don't need an ALL WARRIOR ALL STAR TEAM Rocket River
Juugie, Please provide your analysis of Kareem Abdul Jabbar's perimeter sky hook game and his dislike for mixing it up inside. Was he a warrior?
Thats one of the biggest misconceptions about Kareem. Everyone thinks he was a finese player because he had the sky-hook, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Yes Kareem wasn't the thug that Moses was but he wasn't the jump shooting baffoon that everyone thinks he was. His game was very similair to Dreams except Dream was the better one on one defender of the two. Ming could end up changing the game as we know it, but he could also end up a major bust. If I were in the Rockets organization I would personally stay away from Ming as he is a long term project. I would either trade the pick for an already established superstar or I would draft who I thought was a player who I felt would make an imediate impact. We could be passing on the next Olajuwon but we might be picking up the next Jordan...
Ming is the only project worth taking at this point. If we don'tt ake Ming, get someone who'll make an immediate impact at the 3. Everyone knew what Ming could and couldn't do. What the press is saying? You can't trust a GM about a draft pick right before the draft. He could easily be trying to drop his value. Quentin Richardson? He's all of, what, 22, and you're taking his word for it? You think he'd ever say something like "I wouldn't place a bet on me going inside on Mutombo.". No frikkin way. Ming LOVES to dunk. He does NOT prefer the perimeter game. He may be betetr at it, but just as long as he has the desire to go inside, then he will be dominant everywhere. Whether he likes the training or not, he's going to do it, because he knows he'll need it to improve. he's obviously a gym rat, and when you play in the CBA (Chinese basketball association), you're already a team player. Ming is the best player in this draft. Although, if we can't package the 5th ipck, I'd pick up Hilario from Brazil. Then trade KT and our 15th for the best SF we can get (draft or trade).
