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My informed speculation on the end of Harden's tenure

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by justtxyank, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    You must be new to the world. Liking or not liking someone doesn't necessarily mean you can't work with them and achieve success. Shaq and Kobe hated eachother. By all accounts most of Jordan's teammates hated him. Blake Griffin didn't like Chris Paul but I'm sure he enjoyed being in the playoffs every year they were in LA. I'm sure Booker hates CP3's Napoleon complex but they're currently 3rd in the West.
     
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  2. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Just because Toad was a father figure, doesnt mean he trusted him like he did MDA and Morey.

    And Harden and Russ upset over Ra-fel promotion without their input suggests that they either did not trust Ra-fel or did not trust Tilman, or both.

    There are layers.

    It's not always as linear as we'd like to believe.
     
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  3. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    This is a good theory, and this part:
    again makes me wish that we had traded Harden at that time, kept CP (who proceeded to have a healthy and good season in OKC), and then, with CP's value higher after a year of running the team sans Harden, considered whether to move CP. Harden would have been happier, and we'd have more of our own picks, in addition to the picks or players we'd have acquired in the hypothetical Harden trade.
     
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  4. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    I've always been really curious that if it's true Harden and Russ didn't or don't trust Stone...who would they have wanted in that GM role? Ujiri? Some new wunderkind? Maybe this was reported already but I don't recall seeing "sources tell me Harden wanted [name] instead of Stone"
     
  5. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Then he lied and decided to play Wall in Luka role.
     
  6. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    Harden and CP3 were fine when CP3 was still playing at a superstar level...the constant yapping and barking hits different when you’re playing like you’ve fallen off a cliff while also missing your customary 20+ games

    CP3 in 18-19 was basically the dude yelling at the guy in the group project who had been doing all the work
     
  7. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    No. It was reported that both Russ and Harden were upset that they were not part of decision for new GM when they were told they would.
     
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  8. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Yup. If Harden or anyone knew CP3 was going to come back with a vengeance like he did last year, both would still be on this team....maybe even MDA and Morey.
     
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  9. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    No way that scenario ever plays out.

    First, Harden was the face of the franchise and the younger and better player. Historically better.

    Second, Morey was still GM and MDA still HC. They both loved Harden and the entire team and philosophy was built around his skillset.

    And third, Tilman was absolutely disgusted with CP3's salary and was openly disdainful about it to anyone who would listen, especially media.
     
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  10. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    I think this is the right answer, I think our chances of competing ended in 2019 playoffs. It's not just Harden and CP, I think the squad and system were done as legit contenders especially when Warriors era came to an end and Lakers went big. I'm not sure how we would have assembled our team to beat the Lakers in 2019.

    But the question is which team would have taken Harden in 2019. Maybe Clippers and we get the same package as Paul George, maybe Denver and we would get Murray and MPJ.
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    Yes, Nobody knew that the exact right combination of insane dice rolls would align to rehab CP3's value in 2020:

    1. Missed very little time with nagging injuries even pre-pandemic (he played 58/82 games for each of 2 seasons as a Rocket - 70/72 as a Thun-dar)
    2. Had a team with no expectations that could tailor itself to him, play at a slow pace, etc
    3. A virus jumped from bats and pangolins to humans -> and then he HAD A 3 MONTH BREAK BETWEEN THE REGULAR SEASON/PLAYOFFS
    4. Had the weird bubble environment to help finish off the season, IMO that probably suits CP3 more than most

    Not defending the Westbrook deal but CP3 looked like a spent husk at the end of 2019 playoffs. Could barely get past a man. Could only give you 50-60 games a season. His revival was not expected from his trajectory.
     
    #51 SamFisher, Jan 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  12. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Remember how the Lakers defended us. Remember how you never saw this uptick in double teams until AFTER Chris Paul left.
     
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  13. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    agreed

    we forget that the majority of CF hated CP3 during and after that season and wanted him gone...some of the guys saying we would never win a title with CP3 and his max salary are now the same ones talking about how he’s the greatest

    at the end of the day Harden made the wrong choice preferring Russ over Chris Paul, but that trade had a 76% approval rating here on CF
     
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Its not that big of a mystery. All it takes is one bad apple to spoil the barrel... or whatever analogy you want to use.

    Houston was happy go lucky ... until TF stepped into the picture. If Les was still owner, the vast majority of you would still think JH was God himself and 'one piece' away from a title. You all would be here circle jerking about how the media hates Houston, Silver is conspiring against Houston and the Refs are paid off by LeBron.

    Tilman is the turd in the barrel. The means could have gone a countless number of different ways but the end would have been the same. Rookie coach, Morey gone,, expiring contracts, tons of draft picks, ect... no point in over thinking this disaster.
     
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  15. Texanasiafan

    Texanasiafan Member

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    OP you forgot to at these to the bottom of your post "

    Sauce :

    Brian Win A Horse
     
  16. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    heading into that game 6 against GS in 2019 where Harden and CP3 had that altercation, CP3 was averaging just 14.6 points on 39% shooting for the series while Harden was averaging 35...he simply wasn’t pulling his weight that season

    most of CF hated him
     
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  17. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    "there doesn't seem to be much the NBA can do" because the NBA has already *clearly* stated that this isn't tampering.

    Unless Silver has recently gone on record about such offseason chats between players, Stern's clarity still holds.

    wrt Miami Heat in 2010:

    "What we told the owners was that the three players are totally, as our system has evolved, within their rights to talk to each other," then commissioner David Stern said. He added that players controlling their destinies by working together in such a manner "is not tampering or collusion that is prohibited."
    He repeated this again, under other circumstances, too.

    please no one cite the NBA Constitution to me. I have it, and know the tampering language.
    Stern above is directly addressing the same language you will see in the Constitution definitions.
     
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  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
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    No need to speculate. Before Harden quit...
    1. MDA - quit.
    2. Morey - quit.
    3. Russ - quit.
    Nobody wants to deal with Tilman. Now we're stuck with over-the-hill former "superstars" trying to revive their dying careers. These are the only types of people interested in playing here now. Congrats.
     
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  19. Derp McFlopsky

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    I'll take the conspiracy to tinfoil levels.

    Harden was whispering things to LA all night, both games. LA was clowning the Rockets. It was bad.

    Morris going ham on Tate for what seemed like little reason got me thinking about how Tate got under Harden's skin at practice and got pegged with a ball. Harden and the Morris bros have always been cool as far as I know and I'm quite sure that Lebron at least respects James enough to help him in this context... So Harden sold out his team, sold the Lakers the games for protection from guys that were starting to "get uncomfortable" with Harden. Meaning Wall and Cousins. By "I don't think this situation can be fixed" he meant "because I did my best to make it unfixable". Then he wasn't allowed back to practice, etc. Cousins made it clear it's been happening and John Wall is his homedude anyway. The "coincidences" about KD and Kyrie are more just reading in between the lines now.

    SOMEONE WILL WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THIS TEAM EVENTUALLY.
     
  20. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    Harden was ready to move on....

    to some NEW strip clubs.
     

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