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My experience, please feel free to bash

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bobmarley, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    So tell me, what armed force are these able-bodied men supposed to join, exactly, when there isn't one that exists that is palatable for the West to support? You would have them join an armed resistance that no one would want to give arms to, but judge them for not wanting to...because they might be terrorists.

    Yes, it's a country "filled with extremist organizations from all sides." That's why they are risking their lives to float across the Mediterranean to get their families out of there. And never mind the fact that "fighting for your country" is also a bit low on priority when you are homeless and can't feed your children.

    Moral panic and nativism over immigration isn't exactly anything new -- only that it's the same people making the same claims, be they Jews from Czarist Russia, Italians, Irish, Chinese, or whatever.


    I didn't think respect for human life is a "left" position, or that being afraid of terrorism has become a "right" one. Don't you understand that paranoid nativism is exactly what these terror attacks in the West are designed to provoke?
     
    #101 Deji McGever, Nov 19, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
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  2. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    Man, it's like bobmarley asked you to validate everything he said about the left and you just couldn't help yourself....
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I agree with pretty much all of this. Well thought out and logical post.
     
  4. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    I didn't realize being unafraid of terrorism was a shibboleth for political identity. I just thought it meant you weren't a coward.
     
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  5. DrLudicrous

    DrLudicrous Contributing Member

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  6. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    And still... you can't see yourself for what you are...

    Besides the fact that being "unafraid of terrorism" just means your not very bright or you are one of the terrorists.

    Being afraid does not make you a coward, doing nothing while innocent people are dying at the hands of evil while you have to power to stop it does.
     
  7. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Or I could be a musician that played bars on both sides of the Green Line because I'm not an *******. Or I could have been a grad student at Bar-Ilan. Or I could have started an ad agency in Tel Aviv that worked with Arab clients. What did you do when confronted with terrorism?
     
  8. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    You are portraying yourself as someone who has stared in the face of terrorism unafraid and walked away unscathed. Is this who you are or are you just painting a nice narrative?

    I am a simple American who has only experienced terrorism through my television fwiw. I don't think that anyone should be able to murder innocent people and have the rest of the world that has the power to do something about it just watch it like some horrifying game show. Especially not when the end goal of that group is to do the same thing to me and my family if given the chance.
     
  9. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Painting a narrative? I'm not running for office. My point is that you can't let terrorism screw with your life. Franklin's quote about giving up essential liberty for a little temporary safety is more than just a line in a John Birch newsletter against gun control. Being afraid to take in 10k refugees sends a strong message that you are willing to do just that and it means that what Da'esh and those inspired by it do is working and it will embolden more to it in the future.


    There is a lot more to this than what you see on television, and Nazi allegories by talking heads are not only missing the mark completely, they are deliberately misinforming people and making them feel even more powerless.

    The end goal is submission. If not to the religion, especially the politicized global strain of it, then submitting to fear of it. So don't.

    The US and French revolutions were inspired by the Enlightenment. We are governed by laws, not by gods or tribal myths. We follow our own laws to prosecute criminals or we allow ourselves to fulfill the earnest wishes of our attackers to be what they call us, "Crusaders."
     
    #109 Deji McGever, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
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  10. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    Ok, I don't think we are way apart on this issue. First, I do think we should take in these refugees. I also think that it is fair to verify that everyone is comfortable with the screening process considering that there is some risk. The OP of this thread I think also believes the same thing and has had experiences that have shown him that it would be prudent to vet these refugees carefully.

    Overcoming hate with hate is impossible but watching evil be done to innocent people is not going to end hate either. I don't have to hate to protect someone I love.
     
  11. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Just a comment that Deji's posts in this thread have been top notch. Much respect.

    bobmarley? You should study Deji's posts.
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Due to workload I haven't been able to participate much other than some lurking.

    Wanted to step in and say that Deji is one of the best posters here and a guy we should all listen too.

    Also for those wondering yes he has actually experienced terrorism since he lives in Tel Aviv and experienced rocket attacks, not the kind with James Harden cooking.

    Anyway living in Minneapolis there are Somalis living down the street from me. While there have been a few that have been radicalized with some going to fight with Al-Shabab in Somalia and five who were arrested for planning to join DAESH. This has caused a lot of concern in the Somali community here and there are many efforts within the community to combat extremism. There was a recent CBS news story about this:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapolis-community-struggles-with-isis-recruiting-tactics/

    In general though I haven't had any problems with the Somalis. I've had a few as students at the U of MN and my ex GF did a lot of work with children's programs for them.
     
  13. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    The US has the most stringent process in the West for refugees and immigrants in general. A likely terrorist is either going to be someone who grew up here and was radicalized, or someone on a much easier to get tourist visa.

    Tourist visas are even vetted to an extent -- I know of Israelis who were denied vacations to Disneyland because the State Department was convinced they would try to stay past three months.

    It's not the US you should worry about -- it's Europe.
     
  14. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Thanks for the props, but two things:

    1. I live in Austin now, though I still have yet to see any men made of tin. The closest I get to the Middle East these days is my Facebook feed and buying falafel on the Drag.

    2. Tel Aviv didn't see any rockets until fairly recently, when Hamas got an upgrade to it's arsenal from a care package or two from Iran. Before that, most of the rockets I saw were either from the Hezbollah, in the north of Israel (near the Lebanon border) or further south near Gaza proper, where most of the Hamas arsenal still falls. Getting a "code red" in the middle of Tel Aviv was something that until recently, had not happened since the First Gulf War in 1991.

    Tel Aviv is often chided by the rest of the country for being a "bubble", both for being far more pro-peace and leftie, and for escaping most of the terror the periphery sees far more often. But it's also a place where the bars only close on Yom Kippur (and maybe Holocaust Day and Veteran's Day). Life goes on despite everything that's thrown at it and it's one of the things about Israeli life I'll always respect.
     
  15. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Contributing Member

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    Read Revelation...I can't wait.
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    You understand that Revelation was a dream right? It says it in the book.
     

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