I'm not dodging your question at all. If it happened with Clinton supporters all over then why wasn't it reported? It wasn't just mine. I can tell you that Clinton supporters weren't very intimidating at my district because they were old women. So I guess you were intimidated by old Hispanic ladies. The Hispanics don't have to take orders from Hillary because they have been loyal Clintonites for over 16 years. My wife is Mexican from south Texas and can tell you that they know how the caucus system works. Her family also have been involved with the politics down there and was never instructed in the past by the Clintons to intimidate. So basically you are saying obama supporters are ignorant and dumb at my caucus. BTW....the obama supporters wouldn't allow us to vote for chair ad secretary. They just claimed both positions. How was that fair? And where did they get that idea from? They wouldnt allow us to even vote.
All the things that happened in my particular precinct weren't reported either. Does that mean they didn't happen? What you posted was a memo from a Hillary camp lawyer, which is obviously at least slightly biased. But I am not going to discredit its claims, because I witnessed myself how such chaos could come about. I am not disputing with you that these things happened, but for you to suggest that these things were encouraged by Obama himself, is completely ridiculous. I am a Hispanic 19 year old female, and I can tell you that Hillary supporters were trying to intimidate me and other Hispanics that were voting for Obama. Regardless of race or gender, voter intimidation is still that. Do you think it would be fair for me to blame those events on Hillary and say she encouraged those tactics? And yes, if all the things truly happened as you described, the Obama supporters in your precinct were behaving in an unacceptable manner (ignorant, dumb, whatever you want to call it). But at the same time you must acknowledge that it is fully possible and likely that similar things happened to Obama supporters in precincts that heavily favored Hillary. Also this- -just shows the ineptitude of the people in charge of your precinct's caucus. Regardless of which camp held the majority, they were still obligated to follow Robert's Rules of Order.
I can agree that Intimidation was not a mandate or order from either the Obama and Hillary Camps. However, intimidation is a by-product of instructions from each camp respectively. I would argue that the Hillary supporters that were Intimidating you - Politqueras as my wife and family tells me they are called, are first of all 1)more educated about the caucus rules 2)Although maybe loud, passionate and quite obnoxious about their candidates(as I know how Latina women can be firsthand) would not do anything to try and cheat Democratic party rules. The Clinton machine has been at work for over how many years? We all know what they do, how they do, and when they do. We don't know much about Obama - YET...but we are starting to now. As for the Obama supporters, call them ignorant, call them dumb, call them misinformed, call them what you like, The bottom line is that SOMEONE told these Rookie voters WHAT to do. You had sample sign-in sheets that you could download from Obama's website. You had people telling people to sign-up before the Caucus even started. Where did they get their marching orders from? O but wait, these people were just acting on their own? Then why was it happening in many counties all over the state? Those were mandates coming from OBAMA's campaign office. I can see as a young person like yourself who is probably in college wants Obama as your candidate of choice because you are likely voting for him based on Principals. You probably like what he stands for because he wants to CHANGE Washington politics. Gee- Didn't George Bush say the same thing before he became president? Well, I can tell you that in the REAL world, when you start supporting your own family and child like the MOST of us, you will see how Obama will help you. As it is, if your family is making $75K a year, you are going to end up paying more than $2K in taxes a year under Obama. You are also going to feel it when you start paying for higher groceries including baby milk which is already almost $7 a can - I know because I just went to the store this morning. O yea, and his Healthcare plan you don't really think about when you are young like yourself because young people never do. But for us OLD folks, we are risking the quality of healthcare over the price. As a college student, you probably like his talk of a $4K college credit which all you have to do to pay it back is do a little community service. That sounds like a great idea. Who do you think and How do you think we are going to get the money to pay that? I guess it doesn't matter to you because you are young. But again, this is about CHANGE and HOPE. A new FRESH Start because Obama is ABOVE the same old regular politics. I got news for you and all you Obamaniacs, he's just the same type of Shady Politician like the REST OF THEM. Just that the American public is about to get a rude awakening.
What are you talking about? I've been a part of this site from the beginning. Oh wait, that was your sarcasm at work. Gotcha!
No, just my ego! I never pay attention to when people joined and stuff... Maybe I pilfered Rocket Rich from you-- been too long -- can't remember. I switched monikers because I switched email addresses and I didn't get new log in info for a few days so I just upped and changed my moniker
In over my head because you have a comprehension problem? The electoral college system is also flawed in that it can allow a person to be elected when they lose the popular vote within the country as a whole. As I stated earlier, it rarely happens, but it is possible. THIS IS THE FLAW. This is what some complained about after 2000. For the third time, I am not comparing the two systems to each other. My point is you are complaining about the flaws of one system when you didn’t have a problem with the flaws in the other system in 2000, when your chosen candidate took advantage of those flaws. Just as you are complaining now about a system everyone knew was in place before the election started, people complained then about the electoral college system. Again, I AM NOT COMPARING THE SYSTEMS TO EACH OTHER. My point was you didn’t care about flaws that don’t reflect the will of the people when your guy won. To make it simple for you, I am saying nationwide will > state will. The electoral college system says differently…one of it’s few flaws…that is rarely abused. Does the electoral college system allow a candidate to win when the majority of the people in the country did not want him to win….yes or no? If yes, then is that a flaw….yes or no? Again, NO ONE IS COMPARING THE SYSTEMS!!!!. Plenty of people in 2000 complained about Bush winning the presidency when he didn’t win the overall popular vote. Maybe you mis-remembered Andy. And again, if the system allows a man to win when the majority of the people did not elect him then how is it not flawed? Just because it rarely happens? When did I defend the caucus system? When did I make a comparison between the two? My first comment to you was “did you have a problem with the will of the people not being reflected when Bush won”. Again since you don’t seem to get it….I was talking overall popular vote when I said will of the people. I don’t know where you got this other nonsense about comparing systems, etc. Is the following clutchfans link, with a link to the Houston Chronicle good enough for you? http://bbs.clutchfans.net/archive/index.php/t-66349.html Assuming you don’t back out of your bet, feel free to donate that $50 to the tip jar. I’m sure clutch can let us know when you make good on your word.
I don't think what bigtexxx said is racist. I have seen those same type of thug-like groups myself. They can be of any race. It's a shame people can't make observations without being falsely labeled because of it. .
To RRNYC: I love how you base your opinion of the character of the diverse Democratic Party voters on the VERY limited sampling of your wife and her family (Hillary supporters) and the Obama supporters you caucused with. This, along with your absurd assertion that the misbehavior you witnessed were "mandates from Obama's campaign office" shows very poor judgment on your part. Your problems with his proposed policies can be used against the candidate YOU decided to caucus for as well. As a single person with no children I can pretty much guarantee you that I will be paying a higher tax rate with fewer breaks than you will, so this is just stupid. And all of those things were known before you went to caucus, yet you say you were undecided until then? After reading your posts in other threads and your creating of new ones just to bash Obama, it is very clear to me now that you already had your mind made up. Also, your presumptuousness and arrogance are just seething through with that post. You think because I am young I do not worry about my future? Or maybe that somehow your concerns are more valid than mine? Or that your opinion is the only one that is right? I started out trying to see where you were coming from, but now I see that you are just a joke.
Oh you have so much to learn about life. What tax breaks am I getting? Hello have you heard of the marriage tax? Which Dems are trying to repeal. So unless you plan on making more than 75k a year how are you paying more taxes than me? Go back to school.
Oh yes you're schooling me on something. GREAT. Do you realize why the marriage penalty was created? Do you know the provisions that were made to reduce it? Do you not claim your children when you file your taxes? Thanks, I'm so much smarter now... Also, you did nothing to address the rest of my post. You've done that several times. I'm done talking to you, as you have been exposed as exactly the type of person that is fine with "politics as usual". At least T_J and big texxx don't try hide behind a facade of evenhandedness.
I guarantee you that I am paying way more taxes than you even with my child deduction so go back to school. I wish I was 19 and single.
I have really enjoyed reading RRNYC's online transformation from a budding liberal Democrat to a caterwauling reactionary Republican.
I have my issues with both Dems and Repubs. As I said before, I was/am an Independent. My main concerns are the Economy, mortgage crisis, healthcare, immigration with the war last. I hardly consider myself a Republican.
