I really do think Hillary should question the legitimacy of not just last night's Texas caucus, but cauci around the COUNTRY. Look, this whole antiquated process of having a caucus is the ONLY reason that Obama is ahead on pledged delegates right now. And we know that the caucus shuts out many voters who can't stay up late, make it to the polls on a given day, can't leave work, or don't have the physical stamina to participate. Older voters are particularly disenfranchised by this process. It would not surprise me in the least if this argument is made by the Hillary camp. Heck, I think it is a very legit argument. Look at the Texas results for proof. The raw voting was won by Hillary, yet the caucus results DO NOT REFLECT THAT. How is that fair? Furthermore, how is this fair in the other caucus states? Texas' results are a CLEAR INDICATION that the caucus fails to express the will of the electorate. Last night was proof positive, as you had them side-by-side. Obama's caucus wins are a total sham and borderline fraudulent, imo.
This whole experience is making me an Undecided voter again. After all that I witnessed on the Democratic side, I have to re-think my position again. I do know that I will NOT vote for Obama. Any thought of that went out the window after the caucus. I still think I will vote for Hillary in a General election but I will be sure to monitor what goes on with the McCain campaign as well.
Same old [insert Bush criticism here] argument from the libs when they find themselves in an indefensible position. no cred... The different between the electoral college and the caucus system is twofold: 1) No voters are disenfranchised in the electoral college system like they are in the caucus system. As stated above, voters who can not make it to the polls at a given time can not participate in the caucus. Older voters are disproportionately affected here. Students with nothing better to do or the unemployed -- two key Obama constituencies -- are tailor made for a caucus. 2) The electoral system, unlike the caucus system, is not a breeding ground for fraud and corruption. We've already heard first hand reports of Obama-supporters' thuggery at the cauci. We've heard fraud complaints, corruption complaints, and other impediments to participation. None of those issues are present with the electoral college system. So it's ridiculous to compare a caucus to the EC. It's also ridiculous to know that Obama's edge has come from this corrupt, highly questionable approach to 'voting'. It smacks of smoky-room, back-office, Chicago-style corruption.
if you base your vote about obama on some people he probably never met maybe you shouldn't even be voting
I mean I'm not even trying to be a jerk, of all of the issues, iraq, health care, economy, terrorism, after starting a thread because you're oh so concerned about your vote and then to say I'm not voting for this guy because his supporters were rude is a beyond stupid
There's also the mental aspect as well. The caucus shuts out voters who aren't in a position or simply don't want to broadcast their vote to all their neighbors, family and friends. I've got a couple of friends back in Texas that didn't caucus last night for that very reason. Caucuses are a joke, and yes, I'd say that if Clinton won them as well. Honestly, this shows me why superdelegates should be allowed to do what they want. Like you said, the will of the people was expressed in the raw vote. But somehow Obama gets more secondary votes and he'll end up with more delegates. Yes, if superdelegates en masse went against the will of the American people, that could be a problem. But this shows that the will of voters is more complex than looking at the pledged delegate count...
To be honest, I didn't see that many students at my caucus. The young vote was totally overblown in the media. I do agree the caucus does not favor old people. I saw many old people leave before the doors opened. I also saw old people leave being intimidated by the Obama people. I was NOT intimidated and I stayed thru the whole process. It also doesn't favor families with small children. They can't stay or attend caucus. My wife stayed home with my child while I attended the caucus. However, I did see many Obama supporters bring their kids with them. After experiencing what I went thru, they really need to come up with a better way. This is going to destroy the Democratic party if this keeps up.
No YOU are stupid. I already had my reservations ABOUT Obama BEFORE this. However, after last night, the way HIS PEOPLE that TOOK INSTRUCTIONS FROM HIS GRASSROOTS CAMPAIGN...By Intimidating people and cheating made my decision easier. That was over the top for me. SO yes you are being a jerk. To be honest, Hillary and even McCain will do a better job at running this country than Obama. If his campaign is any indication of how he mobilizes his people to run this country than NO THANK YOU!
you mean to win caucuses, and you're stupid if you think the disorganization in texas is obama supporters fault. the chair of the democratic committee on channel eleven news said they knew they weren't prepared. read the actual articles on the subject.
whatever dude and you're a liar so I don't know what to believe about the caucus coming from you. you got all in a hissy when oski called you out on your first thread, but it seems he was right
I had my reservations Before I attended the caucus... I was an undecided voter up until monday, so How was I lying about that? I even started a different thread before tuesday. You called me out on what? Whatever, I was there. I saw with my own eyes. You are the one that probably didn't vote, didn't attend a caucus, but still buys into the Obama BS. So I'm calling YOU OUT!
But you call me a Liar about what? You don't have to believe what I say. I don't give a crap what you or other people think. I know what I saw. If it happened where I was, then this could be happening ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. It's coming directly from the Obama camp. I'm glad I went to vote, I'm glad I went to the caucus, I'm glad I got to see with my OWN EYES, how the Obama camp acted. It is ALSO documented on several news/media sites about how the intimidation and improper conduct occured. Why would I make THIS UP? What do I have to gain by making this up? I'm not the only one who experienced this. Somebody else in here commented about an altercation with a Hillary supporter and a janitor ripping up their card. I wish I could say I made this up but I didn't.
about considering obama in the first place apparently you do since you posted your experience this isn't happening all over because other states caucuses are the norm. in texas it wasn't and they were unprepared. so were the people caucusing who i'm sure didn't know the rules. some of the places didn't even have people to run the event. you're missing my point. what's really bugging me is that you're blaming the confusion on obama supporters. no that being said, you are right about one thing I wasn't there. but if i did caucus it wouldn't have been in an obama dominated caucus
I was one of those Independents that at first liked what he had to say. He was an alternate to Hillary Clinton, which living in New York for 11 years I was very open to. I never even voted for Clinton prior to this election. It wasn't until sometime last week when I started doing research that I started to have my questions. Every speech I heard, he said the same thing - and he's STILL saying the same thing. I got tired of all his smooth talking and rhetoric. The last time this country listened to a smooth talker and likeable guy, we got George Bush. So yes, I was very weary of Obama last week. I even got very critical of him in a previous thread asking people to chime in on why Obama has good judgment. All I kept hearing was he has good judgment. I just got fatigued with hearing the SAME talking points and the same speeches Obama was giving. When he finally laid out some things he would do, it made me ask even more questions. Then looking at more of his own record and his associations with certain people it just gave me more red flags. After what I saw at the caucus, it just reinforced more of my reservations about him. So yes, I was an undecided voter between Obama and Hillary before this all happened.
