24 year old point guards who put up 20-11 on better than 50% from the field with AST/TO ratios of 4 are hard to fit in. I'm surprised DD hasn't shown us how Brooks' 2P% on Tuesdays is better than Paul's. If Paul is a 10, Brooks is only an 8 on some sort of logarithmic scale.
With some other GMs, maybe you have a point. But with Morey, he is known to be able to get gems out of late 1st round and 2nd round, or trade toxins for gold. That's the difference. You get an elite player. You build around him. With a GM like Morey, finding suitable role players is a lot more likely than acquiring an elite player.
Everything? Would we have nothing around Paul? Hmm..let's see. So let's say we deal McGrady, Brooks and Scola for CP3, Peja and Posey. Ok, let's see what's left. we still have the 7'6" guy, right? Yao...check. Landry is still here...check. Battier...check Ariza...Check Budinger...Check Hayes...Check Anderson...Check Taylor...Check Peja...check Posey...Check. So, you're telling me that we can't contend with Yao, CP3, Battier, Ariza, Landry, Lowry, Anderson, Taylor, Budinger, Hayes, Peja and Posey? Do you call that gutting the team to acquire Paul? Do you not think that a free agent would want to play with that combination? Can you imagine CP3 running breaks with Ariza, Budinger, Posey and Battier on the wings? Can you imagine CP3 penetrating and opposing centers having to decide whether to challenge him or potentially leave Yao open for a dump off pass from Paul? Sorry, but I hardly see how that bears any resemblance to the current NO team.
You think the best the Hornets can get for Paul is Brooks and Scola?????? My friend you are going to have to give up damn near everything.
Yeah, you are right. Besides, keeping track of all of those additional steals is just extra work for the scorekeeper. It's not like Paul would be an upgrade on defense. He's only been NBA All-Defensive 1st team once.
Originally posted in another thread, probably mute given GS's statement regarding no interest in TMac but a deal I think makes sense for all involved... If Im looking to trade TMac I think you have to look at a three team deal where one team gets a lot of cap relief this summer, the other gets some quality players, and we get a little bit of both. To that end, the following works per realgm: Houston sends TMac to GS and receives Randolph and Morrow and Blount, Cardinal and Brewer from Minnesota. Golden State sends Ellis and Maggette to Minnesota and Randolph and Morrow to Houston and receives TMac and Rubio's rights. Minnesota sends Rubio's rights to GS and Blount, Cardinal, and Brewer to Houston and receives Ellis and Maggette We do it to get TMac out of dodge and receive a potential star in Randolph and a one day Battier replacement in Brewer while basically keeping $15 million of TMac's $23 available for the summer. GS gets out from under two bad contracts and receive a possible superstar pg in Rubio. Minnesota would have very little cap space after this, but do they ever draw free agents anyway? This way they get something for Rubio and get two above average scorers to team with Love and Jefferson. Probably not enough to put them in the playoffs, but a definite step up in talent that provides hope for the future. Thoughts?
You don't seem to understand New Orlean's situation. Let me make some points to clarify: 1) The ONLY way the Hornets trade Paul is because it's the only way to get out of the financial hell that they are in. They would be forced to trade Paul to a team in order to get them to take other long term contracts that are costing them double their value due to the LT. 2) There are very few teams that can offer that kind of cap relief to NO. 3) Of the teams that can offer cap relief, almost none of them are willing to take on that kind of additional salary. 4) Chris Paul is a Base Year Compensation (BYC) player. That makes him even harder to trade. So if it reaches the point that the only solution to save the franchise is to trade Paul, then what do you expect NO to do? At that point your are dealing from a position of weakness. There is only a handful of teams that can get them out of their current financial situation. Of those teams, tell me who can offer a better deal than Scola and Brooks? You're absolutely correct that if NO is willing to move Paul most of the teams would love to get him. Some might be willing to give more. Those would be valid points if the Hornets were trading him because they just wanted to get rid of him. 90% of those teams could only offer deals where NO had to take back too much salary and that doesn't help their situation. Other teams can offer the cap relief, but no low priced assets to go along with it. We are one of the few teams that can offer both. That is the beauty of what Morey has done. He's accumulated many different assets that can be combined to make an attractive offer to a team. Here's Morey's description: We can provide financial relief, we can provide players who can help you win now, we can provide players who can help you for the future – so we’re sort of like Target right now in that we can provide everything under one roof. We can give it all and handle any need Daryl Morey 1/17/2009 http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/q_with_daryl_morey_rockets__2009_12_17.html Does that make sense? Some teams can offer cap relief. Some teams can offer assets, some teams are willing to take on extra salary. We are one of the few or only teams that can offer ALL of those things.
Don't treat me like an idiot, I am quite clear on NO financials. Teams will come out of the woodwork to get Paul. Brooks and Scola will NOT get it done.
Great, then. Please provide examples of teams who can provide expiring contracts plus talent better than Brooks+Scola.
Didn't mean to treat you like an idiot. But if you understand NO situation then why do you keep saying that teams will come out of the woodwork to get Paul? Sure they'd like to, but they simply don't have the combinations of a deep pocketed owner, expiring contracts and valuable low prices assets. Can you offer a better realistic trade scenario for NO? Just absorbing that kind of contract committment rules out 95% of the teams in the league right there. The fact is that NO is in a bad situation and there aren't alot of alternatives for them. They'll try everything they can to move some of their long term deals but that's going to be difficult. If they can't then it's going to come down to taking the best of the bad deals.
You forgot to add "and has an owner that is willing to take on $20M+ in additional salary for multiple years"
The karmic forces appear to be aligned against stacy right now... Behaving like a spoiled diva his entire career crying about touches while missing half his games, collecting his $23M this season and instead of keeping his mouth shut crying for more pt than his game deserves in hopes of getting another contract this summer... And now the most probable outcome is that no trade will likely go thru and his contract will just expire worthless at season's end, with stacy having played sparsely in a total of 6 games this season... You get what you deserve you whiny testicle-less P.O.S.! :grin:
It's Chris Paul, dude. He's exponentially better than Aaron Brooks. He just is. He's one of the three best players in the league in his prime.
1.) Rockets are in position to trade for Paul for another what 58 days? So in that time, Paul has too completely do a 180 and demand a trade. Because as I am sure you know, Paul was recently interviewed and stated he was happy there. If the Hornets are desperate at this deadline they will dump Okafor or West and pray it doesnt infuriate CP3, they won't pre-emptively move Paul, no way, no how. 2.) If he does become available, I can guarantee you Pritchard, Riley, Presti, Buss, Ferry and Cuban will be front and center offering nearly anything for chance to land CP3. Dampier, J.Ho, Shaq, JOneal are some starting pieces to allow them to take back money. D. West, Beasly both pieces that could be dangled for starters. Preti will offer Green/Westbrook, Buss will offer Bynum/Odom. 3.) If Paul becomes available, which will most certainly be long after McGrady is gone, you can ahead and pencil in Brooks, Landry and Ariza as your starting offer and see what else NO is going to want to make it work. As I said, it is highly unlikely the cards fall our way with CP3.
You didn't satisfy the conditions of helping New Orleans financially and giving them young talent. Dampier, Howard, and Shaq, are good starts on the financial side, but Dallas/Cleveland don't really have young talent to tack on that's better than Brooks. Delonte West? Good luck with that. Bynum/Odom doesn't save you money. O'Neal/Beasley is interesting, I could believe that. I don't think that's hands downs better than McGrady+Brooks/Scola. Green/Westbrook? Maybe, but I see OKC sticking with what they have.
You're correct, NO would try and make other moves. Trading Paul is a last resort. Everyone has acknowleged that. That's why the idea of trading Paul has always been qualified with "If they had no other option". That's been the discussion on Paul from the first mention on this board. The Hornets have been trying to move Okafor. The Okafor to Sacramento talks was well documented, but they couldn't reach a deal and they don't have any other takers. Dumping West doesn't solve their problem. Nobody is going to take on $20m in bad contracts just to acquire West. He simply doesn't have that value. Ok, let's look at those. Cleveland could certainly offer Shaq's expiring deal. Now from the Hornet's perspective do you think that Delonte West is better than Brooks/Scola? West who makes $4.2M ? The same West who was arrested for mar1juana possesion in August? Same guy who was arrested in September when he was pulled over for speeding on a motorcycle and was found to be carrying 3 loaded guns? The same West that physically went after teammates and a referee in training camp? The same guy that has been pretty open about his lifelong battle with bi-polar disorder? Miami - Miami could offer Jermaine O'Neils expiring offer. They could also offer Beasly. So again, is Beasly a better offer than Brooks and Scola? This is the same guy that was in rehab here in Houston earlier in the Season. Dallas - Yes they cold offer Dampier, but he only makes $12M or so per year. Big difference in cap relief from McGrady's $23M. You're going to give NO, Josh Howard? Ok, he makes $10M per season so he's not really low price talent. Additionally he's been injury prone and his behaviour has been quite erratic. This is the same guy that was caught on video saying he didn't celebrate the national anthem because he was black. The same Josh Howard that admitted to the Dallas Morning News that he still smoked mar1juana? That's a more attractive offer than Brooks/Scola? Oklahoma - Yes they could offer Green/Westbrook. Now how are they going to offer $20M in cap relief? They don't have anywhere close to that in cap space. Additionally, I seriously doubt that OKC would take on $20M in additional salary even if they could. They are very young and they are going to have to sign quite a few guys to extentions over then next several years. Lakers - They're going to offer Bynum and Odum ? Ok, so how does that save any money for New Orleans? The Lakers don't have $20M+ in expiring deals and they certainly don't have cap space. That would be trading for different long term/high priced deals. Why would NO do that? If they don't save tens of millions then they don't trade CP3. I'm still not seeing anything that is obviously better than Scola/Brooks.
For these Chris Paul scenarios to work, Paul would have to be packaged with Peja (combined $27.5M). Otherwise, it's pointless in terms of financial health. One of the keys here is that trading Paul also removes the Hornets only sellable star. West doesn't move tickets. Brooks wouldn't move tickets. A winning team would *maybe* sell some tickets in New Orleans, but this is a Star League. Stars sell tickets. Clearing $20M per year off the books only goes so far when it's coupled with additional revenue loss. It's why Minnesota won't move Al Jefferson. It's why they took so long to move KG. It's why Philly brought back Iverson. It's why Milwaukee wouldn't move Redd (until now, with Jennings taking over). When non-flagship teams luck into a star player, they have to hold on with white knuckles. MAYBE the Chris Paul scenario pans out. But I would be stunned.
LOL - you just like to nitpick. pick, pick, pick.... you are a picker... As I said.....I would take Paul.....for Tmac and Brooks. But it still would leave our wing position in trouble with Battriza in there and thin up front this year. SHEESH ! DD
You are abslutely right. Realize thought that it's not just clearing $20M in salary. There's also the two year luxury tax implications. Here's the exact trade with the savings calculated by Bill Simmons: Fake Trade 8A: Houston trades Aaron Brooks (expires in 2011) with T-Mac, Scola and Brian Cook (all expire in 2010) for Chris Paul and the Peja-Songaila-Posey cap-killing trio. Considering Houston's deep pockets, it would have to do it -- how else could the Rockets acquire a top-10 player? And New Orleans would fall under the tax (saving them about $16-17 million this year, plus another $25-30 million next year) and replace a decent chunk of Paul's production with a Brooks/Darren Collison combo. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/091223&sportCat=nba It could mean up to close to $50M in savings. That's huge. While you are 100% correct that the Hornet fans would hate it and it would hurt attendance, bankrupcy hurts worse. I'd have to disagree about Jefferson and Redd. I don't believe that those guys sell that many tickets individually.
