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MVP Watch 2k15: James Harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by justtxyank, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. jman7373

    jman7373 Member

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    Where is the "MVP" Curry??? :confused::confused::confused:
     
  2. Crashlanded19

    Crashlanded19 Member

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    Ha no steph curry. I always felt Draymond Green was the real MVP of that team.
     
  3. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    Harden is a beast in crunchtime; potential game tying or go ahead opportunities in the last 5 min or OT of a game:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Fyreball

    Fyreball Member

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    That video between Peckerwood Strauss and Elhassan could have easily made it onto a p*rn site since I'm pretty sure it entails two guys blowing each other. To say, "All advanced stats favor Curry" is a complete lie. There's no two ways about it.
     
  5. Mr. Dominant

    Mr. Dominant Member

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    <div id="fb-root"></div><script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/sdk.js#xfbml=1&version=v2.3"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);}(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script><div class="fb-video" data-allowfullscreen="true" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1055367204477746&amp;set=vb.716003648414105&amp;type=1"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><blockquote cite="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1055367204477746"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1055367204477746"></a><p>Story about James Harden! #MUSTWATCH #BeardStory</p>Posted by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/JamesHardenPage">James Harden #13</a> on Sunday, March 29, 2015</blockquote></div></div>
     
  6. sabesque

    sabesque Member

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    They probably are talking about rate adjusted stats, which is hypothetical and kind of supports the idea that he's not as valuable (don't need him for his full potential and his team is able to put people away when he's out).
     
  7. Mr. Dominant

    Mr. Dominant Member

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    <iframe src="https://vid.me/e/cFlr" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen scrolling="no"></iframe>

    Respect.
     
  8. tdo

    tdo Member

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    Look man, you like Curry and think he should win MVP, we get it. This is a Rockets forum, and 99% of us here believe he has had an outstanding season, and should be rewarded with an MVP. You disagree and that's fine, but don't act like people being outraged is not to be expected. If I went on a GSW forum and posted completely subjective reasons as to why I thought James Harden was clearly the MVP (BTW I would never do this, because I am not that naive), I would get blasted by their posters as well.

    As to why people didn't dignify your post with a rebuttal, is because it was rudimentary, and didn't deserve a response.

    You say Curry has the better team. That one is non-debatable and I'll give you it.

    You then say Curry is having a better season than James. A terribly subjective statement that holds no water. What are using to qualify as having a better season? The stats are near even regardless of whichever stats you use.

    You then go along to say that the only reason James beats Curry in certain stats is because he has no one on his team, so he shoots a lot more. You relly could have done some research to save you some embarrassment on this one, but you chose to be a dick, so I'll embarrass you. James attempts 18.3 FG per game a whole whopping 1.5 more than Curry's 16.8 FG per game. Yea one shot per game is the differences between an efficiency god like Curry, and a chucker like Harden :rolleyes:

    So then you end the whole thing by some incoherent rant about Curry making his teammates better than Harden makes his. To this I just say what the ****? One I want to know how you could possibly know this, and two the main reason the Rockets have won 50+ games this year is because Harden does make his teammates better. We had bench players starting, and 4th string bigs starting at points of the season.

    I'm sure I missed a couple of your points, but honestly I've given you more of a response already than you ever deserved. Trolls gonna troll.
     
  9. HouStu_Rocket

    HouStu_Rocket Member

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    Although I appreciate your opinion and you've certainly played devil's advocate within our Rockets community I do think you might want to check out the Warrior's forum seeing that you are pretty passionate about Curry.

    I will say this though; team records at this point shouldn't matter. Golden State is number 1 and Houston is number 2. There is absolutely no question that Curry's team is vastly more talented than Harden's Rockets so being that they are in position 1 and 2 should pretty much negate each other.

    Both players are infinitely valuable to their team. The Warriors would not be as great without Curry. He is a key piece for them. Harden is a key piece for Houston and without him we would be in the gutter.

    Now the question is; Does Golden State rely on Stephen Curry as much as Houston relies on James Harden? The answer should be more than obvious.
     
  10. HouStu_Rocket

    HouStu_Rocket Member

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    I want to say that Harden's clutch performances are more impressive than anyone else on that list. He shoots an incredibly high percentage in the Clutch and does it unassisted. Anthony Davis is at the highest FG% but how many of those are just easy dunks/alleyoops and bank shots within 3-5 feet from the rim? We have all watched what Harden does in the clutch and he relentlessly attacks the rim, shoots 3s, and has an absolutely fearless midrange game.
     
  11. Remix

    Remix Member

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    ESPN dude on SportsNation today "For the rest of the season including the playoffs, in choosing a perimeter player I would take Kawhi Leonard over James Harden"

    Of course he gave no reasoning as to why but it shows the media hate for Harden is real. smh
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Clown Baby

    Clown Baby Member

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    I like that late-game shooting stat that's being thrown around the past couple of pages. Here are the 2 MVP candidates based on their shooting numbers in Clutch situations.

    "Clutch" = Last 5 min of 4th/OT when the score is within 5pts

    This Season: Clutch
    Player ---- FG --- FGA --- 3P --- 3PA --- FG% --- 3P% --- eFG% -- %Ast'd
    Harden --- 35 --- 72 ---- 12 ---- 23 ----.486 --- .522 --- .569 ---- .143
    Curry ----- 24 --- 56 ---- 5 ----- 21 --- .429 --- .238 --- .473 ---- .333

    Harden has been far superior to Curry in terms of "Clutch" performance this regular season. As much as I respect Curry for being a tremendous offensive player and shooter, he's not a truly elite ISO player. And at the end of the games, that's the type of situation star players often find themselves in. Curry's 33.3% Ast'd rate is far higher than Harden's 14.3%, which shows that Curry gets to play off-the ball more in these situations and still isn't as efficient as Harden.

    Harden is better in clutch late-game situations than Curry. And this isn't just a one year sample size. Curry has actually been consistently bad in these situations over his career.

    Curry's Clutch splits the past 3 years
    .429 FG% -- .238 3P% -- .473 eFG% (2015)
    .411 FG% -- .280 3P% -- .473 eFG% (2014)
    .373 FG% -- .281 3P% -- .440 eFG% (2013)

    For a guy who is gunning for the GOAT shooter crown, Curry has shot awfully poor in "Clutch" situations. This is a guy who is roughly 50/40 most of the game but can't even reach 40/30 when the game is on the line. This lack of big-time shotmaking by Curry is definitely a weakness in his game and one he needs to improve if he wants to win a Championship this year.

    Harden's Clutch splits the past 3 years
    .486 FG% -- .522 3P% -- .569 eFG% (2015)
    .438 FG% -- .458 3P% -- .506 eFG% (2014)
    .402 FG% -- .280 3P% -- .445 eFG% (2013)

    I see a guy who is improving in these clutch situations. Sure, part of this is just is simply "luck". But I think James' improved stepback J has really allowed him to feel more comfortable in these situations. He finally has a true go-to move and doesn't need to depend on 50/50 foul calls on late-game drives as much. That stepback has helped James bigtime and I think even moreso in these pressure situations.

    So Harden comes out on top in "Clutch" situations. He's just been a better late/close-game shooter the past couple of seasons, especially this one. And this doesn't even take into account all the fouls that Harden draws leading to FTs. His already large edge over Curry in "Clutch" situations grow even larger when you include FTs and foul drawing.

    Playoffs are the only ? left with Harden. He needs a signature series to really cement what he did this season. Can't wait to see what he has in store.
     
  13. HouStu_Rocket

    HouStu_Rocket Member

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    That is embarrassing of the dude on SportsNation
     
  14. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Welp...Friday might just be make or break. A fall to the 6 seed would kill any shot Harden has. Hope the team comes to play.
     
  15. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

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    Scoring leader update:

    Harden - 27.61
    Westbrook - 27.49
     
  16. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

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    Harden only putting up 15 shots in a big game where the team absolutely needed him. He better not pull that crap in the playoffs. When no one else can hit a shot he needs 20-25 attempts.
     
  17. HouStu_Rocket

    HouStu_Rocket Member

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    I was watching Harden get guarded all game. It isn't like Harden doesn't want the ball. Danny Green was denying any passes to Harden and refusing to give Harden the opportunity. Whenever he did get the ball he still played pretty solid D on Harden. I'm actually surprised he ended with 22.

    When Harden hit that in-your-face 3 toward the end of the third I thought for sure he was going to catch fire and take over the game.
     
  18. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

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    to be fair he was pulled with 7 min to go in the 4th.
     
  19. HouStu_Rocket

    HouStu_Rocket Member

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    Really desperately need to put the Spurs in their place next game. If Harden could put up some points that would be great but wins are the most important thing right now. Maybe they are one in the same, I don't know.

    UGGGGGGGH! WHY DID THEY HAVE TO NOT CALL THAT OBVIOUS FOUL IN MEMPHIS? That seriously might come back to bite us harder than a dog raised on beans in a broken mason jar.
     
  20. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    He probably based his decision off that one game, too. smfh.

    Let's see Kawhi carry a team outside Pop's system. It won't be a train wreck, but it'll be pretty bad.
     

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