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Muslims in Germany demand the right to make the University of Berlin into a mosque

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, May 27, 2016.

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  1. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Yes, I do think that both countries are, as a whole, way too accomodating to the movement of political Islam. I understand that it is difficult to want to defend freedom of religion, but then you have something calling itself a religion which is at the same time a political movement that does not respect the separation of church and state. How do you deal with that? Muslim associations in Germany and France are sponsored and controlled by Islamists in Saudi-Arabia and Turkey such as the Erdogan (he controls an organization called DITIB in Germany) who openly stated that they do not believe in democracy and that they do not believe in the separation of church and state.
     
    #221 AroundTheWorld, Jun 5, 2016
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Pot calling the Kettle black...

    I'm sorry but if you don't see what is wrong with the thread title then what else can I conclude? At least elaborate why you think the title is an accurate reflection of this entity known as reality or else a new inner circle D&D meme will start at your expense where posters just create new threads haphazardly with highly inaccurate thread titles(That actually sounds fun now that I think about it) Just admit your wrong for goodness sakes. We have all done it here on the D&D before. It's okay.
     
    #222 fchowd0311, Jun 5, 2016
  3. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I don't think you seem to understand the intellectual difference between supporting an idea and not being compelled to be all "offended" about a topic and having a "problem". ;)

    Do you think I'm a racist ATW, or a member of the KKK?
     
    #223 Northside Storm, Jun 5, 2016
  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Nope.. I have this thing called common sense and actually understand what Northside is stating unlike you who either is purposely being obtuse or really is obtuse.
     
    #224 fchowd0311, Jun 5, 2016
  5. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Have either of these two countries committed a "first full surrender to Islam"?
     
    #225 Northside Storm, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  6. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Then I would assume you would also understand what the headline is actually stating and not stating, unless you are purposely being obtuse or really being obtuse.
     
    #226 AroundTheWorld, Jun 5, 2016
  7. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    ATW has repeatedly said they are making demands in the video, yet there are none. The university took away a room they used to pray in for the past 50 years. So to demonstrate against that action, they prayed Friday prayers on the school grounds outside. Apparently the he considers their signs as 'demands:

    1st sign: Do not forbid being together
    2nd sign: You cannot forbid us to pray
    3rd sign: Then arrest me! (in response to the university's threat to have them arrested if they pray)
    4th sign: Thomsen University, I am the campus

    There is a guy in the video who literally says that they prayed outside for Friday prayer's last week and the university threatened to have the police arrested. So they did the same thing against the next week.

    ATW, all I see in the video is a group of people who have:

    exercised their constitutional right to freedom of assembly
    exercised their constitutional right to freedom of expression
    exercised their constitutional right to freedom of religion

    Where are the demands anywhere in that video? Why are you against a group of people exercising their constitutional rights? Is it only because they are Muslim?
     
    #227 Hydhypedplaya, Jun 5, 2016
  8. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I have a problem with racism. You said you don't have a problem with racism. You said you don't mind it.

    No. But you are disingenuous when you say you don't have a problem with racism. I hope you do. I hope you have a problem with homophobia. The premise of why you say you don't have a problem with an idea is that you say there is a marketplace of ideas. You are mixing two things here. In reality, you don't have a problem with someone being allowed to follow an idea and/or state it. That's fine. But if someone does not have a problem with racism, then his moral compass is wrong. I actually don't think that about you.
     
    #228 AroundTheWorld, Jun 5, 2016
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I watched the video. I know their demands. The thread title does not correspond with reality. So no, I'm not being either obtuse or pretending to be obtuse. I'm being rational. Be explicit in why you believe the thread title reflects the actual situation. Use direct quotes or explain explicitly what is going on in the video where you are drawn to this conclusion. Then we can proceed to debate on it.
     
    #229 fchowd0311, Jun 5, 2016
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You are being pedantic for argument's sake. Obviously Northside meant he doesn't have a problem debating or confronting racism. How can you not pick that up?
     
    #230 fchowd0311, Jun 5, 2016
  11. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    Bro.... You aren't understanding the headline.... :rolleyes:
     
    #231 dmoneybangbang, Jun 5, 2016
  12. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    The 50 years are completely made up, just like the "there is no mosque within an hour's radius" is completely made up (as I easily proved). But in your circles, this type of lies for propaganda reasons is par for the course. The sports room in question was being used since 2002 by Muslims. And other Muslims had indeed been complaining that over the years, this room was not just used for individual prayers, but that radical Imams from an illegal organization called "Hizb ut-Tahrir" had been spreading extremist Islam in these Friday prayers in that sports room (which, by the way, makes it even more of a de facto mosque than if it had just been used as a private prayer room - this one is for the thread title nitpickers).

    They said they will continue to demonstrate until the university caves and provides the room again. The reality is that it is not about the room. It's a power struggle. They are trying to get their way against the non-believers. The representative of the Muslims demonstrating threatened the university with "conflicts", without specifying this further. Knowing what "conflicts" with Muslims meant for Theo van Gogh, for Charlie Hebdo, in Bataclan, etc. etc. etc., it is more than understandable that this is alarming.
     
    #232 AroundTheWorld, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    As is everyone who is trying to sidetrack the discussion by focusing on the (copied and pasted) headline.

    That's a different statement than the one he made. I actually gave him a chance to clarify when I asked if he has a problem with the content, even if he doesn't have a problem with them having the right to say it. But yes, I do not think that Northside is a racist. I was calling him out on his imprecise use of language, not on being a racist.
     
    #233 AroundTheWorld, Jun 5, 2016
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    In the streets, we like to refer to this as "Pulling **** out of your ass".

    I haven't researched Hydhypedplaya'a claim about the 50 years part but if it is true, that would mean any entity that already had something they were used to for 50 years taken away from them has no right to peacefully protest or else it would be an expression of domination? Seriously dude... wtf? And you KNOW I pull no punches against Islam.
     
    #234 fchowd0311, Jun 5, 2016
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    See that's being pedantic. Not questioning the validity of the thread title... because that is inherently a ON TOPIC conversation.
     
    #235 fchowd0311, Jun 5, 2016
  16. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I have - it is a lie, just like his claim (from the same article he used from a Somalian paper) that there is no mosque within a one hour radius.
     
    #236 AroundTheWorld, Jun 5, 2016
  17. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    Well it's a pretty good distraction from admitting you've put up a misleading headline.
     
    #237 dmoneybangbang, Jun 5, 2016
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    One hour radius is your benchmark? You never attended high education? I thought you did. You think college students have time to drive 50 minutes away every time they want to pray(1 hr and 40 min round trip).
     
    #238 fchowd0311, Jun 5, 2016
  19. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    You are literally one of the dumbest posters on this site. At least Northside and fchowd are arguing about something. You are like this annoying kid that stands on the side when adults are having a discussion and butts in with a boring and irrelevant dumbass remark from time to time.
     
    #239 AroundTheWorld, Jun 5, 2016
  20. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Alright, let me clarify this, we are having an argument over definitions and it is being shaded by our previous interactions.

    Look--forgive me for saying this as it is vapidly off-topic, but I've lived to a certain degree with both the racism and the homophobia you've mentioned, somewhat insulated by a middle-upper class background. It sucks that a large amount of people think irrational things and some of them act upon it in horrific ways--and a lot more people than me have been hurt in worse ways.

    Trust me when I say that I wished homophobia and racism would die today.

    My problem is the word "problem". I don't think it does any good to relegate content of any kind to being a problem, or a barrier. I don't have a problem with racism, I engage with it every day. I don't have a problem with homophobia, I engage with it every day. I don't have a problem with the KKK walking around yelling "mixed-breeds are savage animals and should be excluded from our society", they are preventing the very thing they are yelling about. So long as they are peaceful and don't commit the acts they spew or incite others to do specifically.

    I don't have a problem with the content or format of a KKK rally. I don't mind racism because I'm too busy thinking and acting on ways to reduce it and watching extremists hang their ideas on positions that cannot be logically or empirically defended.

    ----

    Anyways, dude, I honestly think if you just said "my bad, the thread title should be changed" this whole thing would go better. I kinda came in here half being a prick, but the other half of me is trying to save you from this cesspool. I'm failing at the latter, but that is probably due to my personal failing of being too much of an ******* for my own good, and come on, a little stubbornness on your part :)
     
    #240 Northside Storm, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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