RichRocket: Nobody said that this fearful group were the "true" Americans. They are Americans like anyone else. You are absolutely correct - neither you nor anyone else has *explicitly* defined "true" Americans as the ones who are scared and therefore acting out their ignorance upon other Americans. However, your statements that their fears have a greater value than my freedom in this country makes a pretty strong implication as to who's rights take first priority. Don't you think? Everyone's life is different from now on for some period of time. How would you allay the fears of "those" out there? "They" weren't afraid of those 19 terrorists when they got on those 4 doomed planes. I don't know how to allay their fears! Why don't you tell me how to allay my fear that the nitwit who checks me in at the airport isn't paying attention to his job! Why don't you tell me how to allay my fears that the next time I go to a bar to get a drink the a$$hole next to me won't throw his bottle at me when he tells me how "We're goign to bomb the $hit out of your country"? (he said that - no physical action, but I was scared) Why don't you allay my fears that a guest at a party my roommate threw this past weekend isn't going to try to deface a picture on my wall because he thinks it's "A-rab"? (by the way I got the extreme pleasure of physically throwing him out of my home with the help of my roommates and a few other people) No, man, I don't know how to make the fear go away for you or for me or for anyone! But, this country is supposed to be about freedom. It's not freedom for some at the expense of others. Why is that so hard to understand? I'm not saying I don't recognize the twisted logic behind the comments and actions of the few. I'm saying I will not support it and I do not deem it to be justified because of their fears. I'm embarassed that some of you guys do. Cohen, I appreciate your outspoken-ness (and shanna's and others...) in support of fairness in such a horrible time. I do find it difficult not to become bitter, though. I was born and raised in places like Carolina, Lousy-ana, and (of course) Houston. To have people indict me as "one of them" when I'm about as Americanized as can be hurts.
I know it's not TL's responsibility to allay fears, but until someone comes up with a good idea that improves the situation in which we find ourselves is not just going to go away. In fact, it may get worse. I, too, am in favor of fairness and (need I say it?) have not treated anyone like you, TL, have been treated recently. I am defending these clotheads from the patent charges of racism that fly here. Don't think that means that I justify their behavior. The enemy this time is coming from within; they're not in Japanese Zeroes skimming over the Hawaiian volcanic ranges several thousand miles away. They struck at the heart of the US. The evil ones who did this to us were invited in by us, lived among us, all the while training to destroy us. They don't want to take us over; they want to annhialate us.
RichRocket: I agree with your last post 100%, or at least close to it. It never even entered my mind that you would treat people like that. However, I am glad to hear you condemn it. You may have done so before, but I missed it. I've never been a great writer. You can pick your word. We don't have to call it racism. Call it prejudice, call it ignorance, call it ziky-wiky-soo. The point is that it is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated. Telling someone "I understand your actions" can easily be misinterpreted as saying "I agree with your actions". That may not have been the intention, but it may come across like that. I fear it will get worse as time goes on - if we give them excuses. But I don't see how it can if we condemn it loudly. G-dub has said over and over this will be a war like we have never known. That is precisely because of what you said, RR - this is an enemy like we have never known. This enemy used our trust against us. But, it's important to never forget that trust and our belief in each other's value made this nation a superpower. We have to figure out how to do this right. I, too, am open to all ideas.
Rich- I don't get it. You have spent countless paragraphs defending the actions of these 'clotheads.' You've been defending them from being labelled 'racist' this entire time? Let's get back to the beginning. People were kicked off a plane because of their skin color, dude. Can you explain to me that you haven't been defending this the whole time? It seems to me you have. Don't want it to be called racist? Fine. A very strong argument could be made to say it is, but let's just drop it. Call it discriminatory. Call it prejudice. Call it a denial of basic rights all americans deserve. They paid for tickets, they made it through security. They deserve to fly like anyone else- to deny it to them on basis of their appearance is wrong. It's just wrong. You've been posting pages of defense for this. Why? Stop putting spins on it, like what if americans were in Afghanistan. What happened was wrong. It shouldn't have happened.
Are you serious? Man, there are so many idiots out there. I think I would pay to see this guy get his ass kicked. This guy just walked up to you out of the blue and said that?
TL, I'm not picking on "your" word racism. It has been bandied about here for a couple of weeks by many others. I think I have pretty consistently condemned these personal kinds of idiotic confrontations that frightened Americans visit upon people who make them suspicious. All I have said is that I understand it; in no way should understanding be extrapolated to imply condoning-- especially those personal acts of violence against individuals. But in the same way that we don't condemn all Muslims for the acts of a few zealots, we can't condemn all the frightened Americans just because of the acts of a few zealots. The fear is palpable-- maybe because the loss is more close to home. I have a friend whose aunt lost 75 members of her church. I can't fathom how to absorb that. My friend, you are getting a double whammy. You are just as susceptible as the rest of us to being victimized by this terroristic violence AND you are viewed by some unknown number (let's hope it's a few) as a suspect. nolen: can we back the clock up to 9/11 and run through all that crud about the rights of 19 particular people to board those 4 planes. Things have changed. Don't ignore the obvious. Racial profiling can be abused or it can be useful. It is neither discrimination or racism, though.
....a few questions: If the hijackers would have been some association/grouping of very <i>WASP</i> looking Americans, how would current airline passengers feel? Would they feel less safe because they wouldn't have a <i>certain</i> look to be aware of from potential trouble? Mango
Mango: that's a tough question. You would think that they would feel even more unsafe because it now would be far me difficult to distinguish the enemy-- now resembling some 40% of the population-- but they would also have less anger beause there is no enemy to focus on. Focus brings intensity like a laser.
RichRocket said: Actually I was watching Morning Edition (i think that is what it is called) this morning on CBS Houston, ch. 11. They did a live interview with the parents of 2 of our white American Girls that are being detained by the Taliban in Afghanistan when the UN people were taken into custody. The parents were asked what condition their daughters were in and how they were doing after they got to meet them the other day. The parents said that they were in very good, clean places where they were being attended to in good manner. They were asked if they feared for the physical safety of their daughters and they said that they weren't afraid at all because they have worked with these people and they know that they operate on high moral principles and their religion, Islam, does not allow for the harm of any people in their custody, only good treatment. This was an eye opening incident that made me think twice about our media machine. I think we all know the media always has a way to put a spin on things and right now the government propaganda machine is going full force. I don't know anything about the Taliban government, except what I have heard on the media. Even if Osama bin Laden is at fault and stays in the country, I don't think that the Taliban regime may be as oppressive or evil as portrayed. This has to be done so that we can justify sending in our troops to overthrow this regime. I don't know, so many different opinions. One thing that definitely helps is having a wide variety of news sources, like the bbc or even going to the horse's mouth like middle eastern news services for middle eastern news...etc. Just thought I would add this interesting interview to the conversation.
TL, Did you happen to read what the bonehead from Lousy-ana said? http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010926/ts/attack_bush_tolerance_dc_3.html
What I have the most trouble understanding is the fact that Indian students are getting harrassed and beaten up 'round here. Why would someone direct their unfounded hatred (or fear or whatever) toward Indians? That doesn't even make any sense even if attempts to understand are stretched to the limits. That's not to say that the hatred, etc. directed at Muslims, Middle Easterners, etc. is right (it isn't), but at least it has an internal logic to it (still wrong, but I can see how they get from Point A to Point B).
Do you think someone who would attack an innocent Middle Eastern person knows the difference between an Arab and an Indian?
Cohen - I hadn't seen that comment. That was...interestingly disturbing. I really don't know what to say about it. It's just one of those things that you can't do anything but shake your head at and just throw your hands up in the air. I learned a long time ago that when the ignorance is that deep there's no point trying to educate/enlighten them. It's just not worth the time. Re: the attacks on Indians, that didn't surprise me at all. I'm Indian and the day after it happened, I was talking to my dad about how difficult it was going to be to travel on planes b/c security personnel would just make the assumption that we fit the profile. I knew there would be a problem. It's not like these people are taking the time to distinguish the nationality of their targets. They see certain features and react based upon that. In their defense, I can't easily distinguish between a Pakistani person (typically Muslim) and an Indian person (typically Hindu). Why would they?
TL, Our neighbors are from India, but we have not been home for a while. We hope that no one is bothering them (i.e. no one had BETTER be bothering them!). They happen to be two of the nicest people that we have ever known (I guess their cute li'l baby makes it three). I sent an e-mail to the Today Show regarding the stupid questions Matt Lauer asked the Pakistani gentleman who was asked to leave the plane. I probably was not the only one, because the next day, they had an interview (by Katie this time) discussing the flaws (not just moral but also practical ones) in racial profiling. Apparently, law enforcement agencies miss important, more relevant clues when they focus on nationality or religion. In other words, there are probably more personality similarities between a white terrorist and an Arab terrorist than an Arab and an Arab terrorist.
