It is people like Timing that worry me. But it is people just like him that each of us must be patient with and try and educate. I was born in Pakistan and proud of my culture. I moved to the US when I was two and have lived in this beautiful country for the past 29 years. I am proud to be an American citizen. However, I am concerned. Since 9/11/01 there have been over 300 cases of attack on Arabs and muslims within this country. These attacks include murder to vandalizing mosques and everything in between. The recent events of asking muslims and Arab Americans to get off planes just because of their ethnicity and color of their skin is a sad example of the racisim that is occuring. However, this is reality and something that can not be swept under the rug. I guess Timing missed the Presidents speech this week when he clearly stated that muslims are NOT THE ENEMY. I repeat. Muslims and Arab americans are not and should not be persucated because of the tragic events that took place on 9/11/01. We are citizens of this country and proud of it. Timing said that Arabs are a small percentage of Americans. So using his same train of thought that makes it ok to take away the freedoms and civil liberties from Arabs and other muslims?? Our constitution does not support this way of thinking. I am really glad to see that we have others with open minds on this board and in this country. Only through communication and education can we break down the walls of ignorance.
Thanks Thom, exactly what I was trying to say. Muslims are not as a whole, the enemy, however everyone that's been arrested has been Arabic and possibly Muslim. That is fact. My saying that they're a small percentage of Americans was showing that since they stand out from the "average American" they are more likely to be victims of hate than the Tim McVeigh's of terrorism. That's pretty easy to figure out isn't it? This doesn't make any of these things right, but it's easy to see why it's happening.
Man, this is completely sickening. Those people who were kicked off the planes have a legitimate legal case. There is absolutely no justification for not letting them fly just like the rest of us.
I would not be worried if I was on a plane with 5 arabian men together. My dad just took a plane from Houston to St. Louis yesterday, and not once did I think that he might be in danger. It's okay to have the fear, it's not okay to make someone leave a plane because of your fear.
That's hardly the point, shame on you. Do you expect the average American to perform that calculation in his head when he sees an Arab on a plane nowadays? What % of hijackers are Arab is a more relevant question. I know the odds of another plane getting hijacked are small. Is everyone else in this country as confident as I of that? I doubt it. Is there hate in the people that fear for their lives? Of course not. What pisses me off to no end, are the people who preach about "trying to understand the enemy", and "what would you think about the US if you lived in the ME"...and then turn around and talk about how evil people in the United States are who are freaking scared to death (even if their fear is based in ignorance). How freaking twisted is that? Ugh.
Originally posted by TheFreak That's hardly the point, shame on you. Do you expect the average American to perform that calculation in his head when he sees an Arab on a plane nowadays? What % of hijackers are Arab is a more relevant question. Utter nonsense. What % of serial murderers are middle-aged white men? Is that relevant? No. I know the odds of another plane getting hijacked are small. Is everyone else in this country as confident as I of that? I doubt it. Is there hate in the people that fear for their lives? Of course not. What pisses me off to no end, are the people who preach about "trying to understand the enemy", and "what would you think about the US if you lived in the ME"...and then turn around and talk about how evil people in the United States are who are freaking scared to death (even if their fear is based in ignorance). How freaking twisted is that? Ugh. 'Fear' even if understandable, is no excuse.
I think we should all just calm down and learn karate. That way, if there are 80 of us who know karate, we can take down any hijackers, regardless of their race. Heck, there won't be any hijackers anymore if they knew that we knew karate.
Timing: The only thing you, personally, should be afraid of is the fact that you agreed with Thom...errr...Bob Rainey.
That's because, even though it may shock you, I do believe the US is basically in the right. However, nobody needs me to carry on about how evil the attack was. Everybody knows that. I think it's a duty to think fairly. To not have biases. If I think popular opinion is unfair, I take up the side of the side that's not being properly represented. Racism is wrong. Ignorance is wrong. Killing is worse. But that doesn't undermine the invalidity of the former. These two syllogisms are the same: Some Arabs are terrorists. An Arab is on the plane with me Therefore, I should be afraid. Some African-Americans are murderers An African-American is behind me at an atm. Therefore, I should be afraid. No difference whatsoever. Sorry, tragic circumstances may make such ignorance more understandable, but does nothing to diminish the problem.
Okay, you sound like me now, what the hell? Don't know what a syllogism is, but oh well. Do you use these words in everyday conversation? You're saying ignorance is a problem. Well, I agree, I guess. I've said many times that the American public is stupid. But there is not hate coming from these ignorant people. It's sad that Arab-Americans (and others too...let's face it...the people that are scared are probably not able to differentiate b/t Arabs and, say, someone from India) are being discriminated against. I think it's terrible. However, people are scared. Scared. They're not acting out of anger. To demean these people because they aren't as enlightened as you doesn't accomplish much. Most Americans aren't as enlightened and open-minded as the people on this board--that's just a fact. It's not their fault. These people aren't evil--their everyday ignorance is just manifesting itself in a way you're not comfortable with. They've always been ignorant, it's just now upsetting you. Wow, I figured I was on your ignore list.
Nah, I've started to here though. All of us (me included) argue about things that can't be proven too much. I decided I'd try to be more logical, and look for syllogisms. May not convince anyone, but maybe it can limit the conversation to stuff that you can argue about.
According to a story I heard on NPR, once the door is closed on the airplane from the terminal, the pilot is in charge and has the ability to kick anyone off their plane... I'm not taking any side with this thread, I'm just relaying what I heard on NPR. rH
TheFreak, So your saying that the people that are going into stores and murdering sikhs and muslims, vandalising mosques, destroying the roofs off Hindu temples and beating up harmless hijabi muslim women are acting out of fear, and not hate? I understand why people are scared and paranoid right now, but I believe the people that are going out of their way to attack any minority that may resemble the terrorists are not representative of the mainly peaceful people who are fearful. I would assume that the majority of the American people - and by extension the citizens of the world - are scared or cautious in some form or another right now. However, it is a minority (thankfully) that are not only showing ignorance and exemplifying stupidity by attacking the innocent and making a very difficult situation all the more difficult, but they are also displaying hate and to an extent, racist actions. In my opinion, the events of September 11th have given many racists and bigots an excuse to carry out these actions. As one of my cousins told me, "The ignorant fools just use this tragedy as a means to justify racist attacks". I know you are not in any way condoning there actions Freak, but I would just like to point the distinction between those that are fearful and mainly peaceful, and those that are flat-out racist. As for the pilot and people responsible for the evacuation of the Arabs and Pakistanis; I would classify it as a discriminatory action that should not have been done by any circumstances. However, I do believe the decision to do so was not out of hate or racism, but rather, the pilot perceived what may be a danger to his passengers. It was dumb, short-sighted and inappropriate for him to do so, but it was done out of fear. Azim da Dream
The problem is that what we are newly fearful of undeniably has a racial aspect. Those to fear are Middle Easterners-- not Swedes, or Canadians, or Nigerians. Furthermore, those of whom we should be afraid insinuate themselves into our lives so that their horrible intentions are more easily realized. People wish to survive. Honestly, I don't think that there is that much hate out there in these United States. People are afraid and mad. Remember the Tylenol poisonings? Did you throw out your Tylenol-- even if you had checked to verify that yours wasn't part of the "officially" designated bad batch? We can sit here as critics, but who knows what each of us would do in some of these situations? It is not unusual to over-react in what is perceived as a life and death situation.
Either the people who think this don't go out in public very often, or they are blind, deaf, and dumb (either literally or figuratively). I've already seen and heard so much hate aimed towards people of Middle Eastern descent, that even I was shocked. It's the kind of stuff usually reserved for African-Americans, and usually not said in the company of strangers. It's like the term "Sand N*ggers" is okay now. Man, people make me sick. I don't care if you use that term or similar terms used to refer to other racial groups daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, or whatever. Your state of mind (being angry, happy, sad, etc) doesn't give you the right to belittle a race with a negative racial slur. What extreme circumstances do is to uncover the hidden rascism in people. If some of you are trying to say that in light of the recent events, it is understandable to see that very same hidden rascism come to the forefront, the I agree with you. But, if you're trying to say that because of this or any event, it is understandable for people to say things in the heat of the moment, and that they shouldn't be thought of as rascist for doing so, then I disagree 100%. I really can't understand how most people think. Is the idea of hypocracy not even part of their consciousness? Most (man, I'd almost say 90% with the recent events) people will swear up and down that they are not rascists, but put them in a comfortable setting and your bound to hear them put down one race or the other, if not many different races. And, if you're not experiencing that, let me know where you live. I live in Houston (32% Black, 33% Hispanic, 30% White - approximated from the latest census), one of the most diverse cities in the most diverse nation in the world. I've had this debate with a very close friend of mine. He thinks that the U.S. doesn't have a problem with rascism anymore. He thinks it's something that is in the past, and that this generation is okay with racial issues, and that only the fringe fanatic groups keep rascism alive. Well, he's wrong and anyone who agrees with him is wrong. Either he/they choose not to notice what goes on around them, or they are so sheltered that they just aren't conscious of it. Either way, it doesn't mean that the problem isn't out there and isn't a large one. I'm sorry, but from my own personal experiences, I say a person is rascist until proven otherwise, because giving people the benefit of the doubt hasn't worked out very well for me. I don't treat people differently, but I have a wall up until I think I know a person well enough to know whether they have rascist tendencies or not.
How can you diagnose my agoraphobia from there?!! If hateful racism is bubbling widespread underneath the surface as you say, why is this period of unrest not being taken advantage of by the racist rest of America to crack on African-Americans or Latinos or Asians?????? Or why don't those races crack down on Caucasians or each other? Where is the rioting? Have you noticed that the acting out that you are calling "racism" is being evidenced against people of Middle Eastern descent ONLY? By the way, aren't those Middle Easterners who are committing the acts of terrorism? Since the average citizen can't tell the good guys from the bad until it is TOO LATE, isn't it reasonable to be a little wary or suspicious of any Middle Easterner-- unless you know him/her really well? Yes, some few are going overboard and being reactionary, but don't use them to typify or describe the mass of intimidated and insecure people motivated by self-preservation. Yes, we are still by-and-large a voluntary segregated society but I don't think that meets up to the definition of "racism" that you seem to be proposing here which is riddled with hate. Hate is a very serious indictment. Look at how the races are coming together very well in this time of crisis. There is major suspicion about Middle Easterners right now AND there is a very good reason to be suspicious unless you have reason to be complacent, i.e. a trusting personal relationship with someone from the Middle East.
