Muslim soccer fans boo during minute of silence for Paris. Chant "Allahu Akbar"

I didn't say a word about the religion except that the people fighting Muslim extremism the most, and putting their lives on the line more than anyone else are other Muslims.

Stop acting like that FACT doesn't matter.

I don't excuse anyone for any terrorist attacks. But don't act like all Muslisms are on the side of ISIS when most of the people who are victims of ISIS and most of the people actually putting their lives on the line to fight against ISIS are also Muslim.

Do you think the folks who fight against ISIS are wrong?

 

They are doing more than defend them, they are risking their lives in actual combat with jihadists.

 

I never did. Stop lying and making stuff up, you have already embarrassed yourself enough on this forum, by posting made up statistics about supposedly only 0.000001 % of all terror attacks being committed by Muslims, etc.

 

I haven't lied about diddly, son. If you want to whine and cry about it, go ahead.

But you could answer the question while you're at it.

Do you believe that those that fight against ISIS are wrong?

 

What kind of a dumbass question is that?

 

the kind of dumbass question that you seem unwilling to answer.

Most of the people doing actual fighting against ISIS are Muslims. Do you believe they deserve praise or not? It's your chance to praise Muslims that are taking the fight to ISIS which number a great deal more than those that part of ISIS.

 

Thanks for recognizing that you are asking an incredibly stupid question.

I'll stoop down to your level and ask you a question as well:

Did Stalin deserve praise for fighting Hitler?

Do Shiite militias which cut off heads and commit cruelties deserve praise for fighting Sunni militias?

That you fight ISIS doesn't necessarily mean you deserve praise. You might be just as bad as them, or almost as bad. You might also represent a hateful and brutal ideology.

But you, FB, constantly try to make this weird connection that "Muslims are great because many of them are fighting ISIS. And therefore, Islam is great and needs to be respected." That is such a logical fallacy that you should be embarrassed.

Are there great people who happen to be Muslims fighting back against ISIS? I'm sure. Does the fact that there are mostly Muslims around ISIS' stronghold and that therefore, many of those fighting ISIS are Muslims, mean ANYTHING about Islam or Muslims needing to be praised? No. Because it doesn't say anything about whether their values are better. The government of Saudi-Arabia is fighting ISIS (although much of ISIS' funding came from Saudi-Arabia). Does that mean they are good people or have good values? Nope, they have pretty much the same "values" as ISIS does, and their ideology is horrible.

 

Did Stalin deserve praise for fighting Hitler? Yes. Did he deserve condemnation for the millions he had killed and sent to inhumane prison/work camps? The answer is also yes.

That same kind of answer goes for most of the other questions you asked also.

What I find strange about the last part of your answer is that Islam gets the blame for all the evil violence. But Islam which inspires others to fight against ISIS and take a stand against ISIS and the damage they are doing to the Muslims families and all can be about anything except Islam.

That was the inconsistency in your argument I was wondering about, and you've answered for me.

I abhor the values of the Saudi govt. and their discrimination against women, their barbaric attitudes toward homosexuality and capital punishment also get a big fat negative, as does the funding of terror organizations.

My point isn't that Islam and Muslims are great. My point is that Muslims can do both great things and horrible things as well as all that is in-between.

I'm fine calling out the terrorism and horrible inhumane things done by some Muslims. But I don't need to paint with a big broad brush to do that.

So I've never tried to make it out that all Muslims are great even though they're mostly the ones fighting and dying in an effort to wipe out ISIS. All I'm doing is pointing out that the idea that non-ISIS Muslims are sitting by and not doing anything about ISIS is BS. Largely they're doing more to fight ISIS than any of those calling them out for doing nothing.

But you seem genuinely frightened by the idea that Muslims can fight against ISIS and also be doing so as part of their religion. I don't know why it makes you start whining and crying about it every time it gets brought up, but it's just strange to me. I was curious about it and trying to get a little more insight.

 

I would think that the fight against ISIS is mostly motivated by wanting to survive. What makes you think it is "inspired by Islam"?

One thing we agree about.

Well, that is not really that much of a point, is it? Has anyone said they can never do great things?

You are talking about the Muslims in the areas that ISIS has been taking over. What about the Muslims in the rest of the world?

Answer me these two questions:

Have more Muslims traveled from the rest of the world (Europe, China, etc.) to Iraq and Syria to fight FOR or AGAINST ISIS?

And have you seen more Muslims demonstrating in the streets of the world against ISIS or against the Danish cartoons? Which reaction was stronger?

One bonus question: Are you aware of ISIS approval rates in Turkey and France, and to how many people they translate?

 

You caught that fly with a sticky trap - nice job!

 

The fact that the highest religious authority in Saudi Arabia has called ISIS the number one enemy of terrorism.

I'm not sure about the first one.

The second one had bigger reactions to the Danish cartoons. Maybe they don't feel the need to put on a show of a reaction when they are on the ground fighting against ISIS.

I am pretty certain that most folks in France and Turkey aren't in favor of ISIS. I don't know the numbers, but I do know that numerous Muslim groups in Turkey have come out against ISIS in public including the top Muslim cleric in Turkey.

But I haven't seen numbers for all the populations of France and Turkey in regards to ISIS.

 

You know that you are on the path to losing even more credibility? Are you seriously referring to the "highest religious authority in Saudi Arabia" as some kind of respectable authority when it comes to Islam?

Are you aware that Saudi Arabia has just declared all atheists terrorists?

Not sure? Well, what do you think, huh?

http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-poll-finds-266795

Wait a second...the millions of people who flocked angrily to the street against the Danish cartoons are on the ground fighting against ISIS? Do you really believe that?

http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-poll-finds-266795

Since the official percentage of Muslim population is lower than 16 %, this suggests that a considerable part of the French left also supported ISIS, in addition to a very high percentage of the Muslim population.

Also:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/580221/Islamic-State-support-Arab-world-poll-finds

Huge majority SUPPORT Islamic State in Arab world, shock poll finds

SUPPORT for Islamic State (ISIS) has soared above 80 PER CENT in a poll for the controversial Arabic news channel Al Jazeera.

More than eight out of 10 of the respondents to an online survey for the Qatar-based network – which also has offices in London – gave their backing to the brutal regime.

The poll, which asked in Arabic “Do you support the organising victories of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)?” has attracted almost 60,000 votes.

Shockingly, 81.3 per cent – or 61,145 people – voted yes to the question, in support of the Islamic extremists.

Al Jazeera, which is funded and run by Qatar’s ruling family, has courted controversy in the past for its support of groups including Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, which is identified as a terrorist organisation in many countries.

Critics say it has a bias towards Islamist groups and dozens of staff in its Egypt office quit over the network’s coverage.





If you want a more recent, and more scientific poll that is less skewed by the composition of the viewership, the numbers are lower than that, but still come out to many many millions of people:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/



8 % of the Turkish population, that is still about 6 million people, just to put it in context. ISIS, with all their atrocities committed, has about 6 million supporters in neighboring Turkey.

 

fascinating statistics. Thanks ATW. Many of those numbers are definitely not positive. Pakistan is downright scary.

It's also promising that more in Lebanon are unfavorable than even Israel.

 

How so?

I would be surprised if more than half the Pakistani population doesn't even know what the Islamic State is.

Also I would want to know how many people were interviewed in that pew poll research. If it's only in the hundreds I'd hesitate at least a little to extrapolate that data to the entire population. If it's in the thousands that they polled then that is reasonable.

 

I'm quite positive that statisticians employed by the Pew Research Center have a sufficient understanding of the concept of sample size.

 

When you put the arabic through google translate, the question comes out as:

Have you considered offering to organize an Islamic state in Iraq and Syria for the benefit of the region?

That sounds like an entirely different question and creates some doubt when you consider a google search of the poll image shows that it is only used on ultra-right-wing nut blogs and anti-Muslim websites. It is very suspicious and looks like it was doctored potentially to help denigrate all Muslims.

Again the application of faulty logic without knowing poll methodology. Almost every poll has some percentage of the respondents saying stupid things, taking questions incorrectly, marking answers incorrectly and so on. Be suspicious of anything less than 10% and remember that out of any poll you are going to get 5-15% of people espousing stupid ideas or things they many even believe.

You could ask non-Muslim people in America if they support ISIS and provide find millions who do at least based on the above logic. It's a reckless calculation and people need to be careful taking it as gospel.

Pakistan having such a high unknown is also very suspicious.

People will attack me as an "apologist" but I just want to make sure before we start with the xenophobia, better do it with an ironclad data to back it up and not try to spin numbers or outright use questionable sources to push an agenda.

 

opinion on hakeem?

 

I'm guessing you have no Muslim friends.

 

These aren't muslim "fans". These are straight up hooligans who also happen to be muslim. Hooligans have come to stadiums with nazi flags, throw things at stadiums have no respect for nothing. The problem isn't extremism or whatever. The problem here is hooliganism.
The reason why watching for me football or european basketball is not possible. Hooligans destroy everything good in sports in Europe.

 

And judging from this thread almost noone has any concept of the context here.
These people in the stadium came to watch a match vs Greece. Greece Turkey matches are like a war like atmosphere and attracts many hooligans. Just because a hooligan is muslim doesn't make him different from a christian hooligan. I can guarantee you that a hooligan in let's say the christian country of Greece will have no respect for the moment of silence either.