If no apology is needed, why even bother to feel ashamed. All these terrorists aren't real Muslims, you should be angry rather than ashamed because they totally distorted your religion. You should be standing up, marching down your street denouncing all these terrorists' acts. You should be preaching to your brothers and sisters that bombing pizzerias and school buses is not the answer, don't judge a Jew simpily he or she is a Jew or for something their ancestors might or might not have done fifteen hundred years ago. Tell your fellow brothers to treat their wives and sisters fairly because we are all equal under our Creator. On the other hand, I should feel ashamed and apologetic because my brother had committed one of the most heinous crime of all. I must confess I had tried vehemently denying it ever happened, even knowingly I knew he did it. I felt so ashamed because once his crime was utterly unrefutable, I still tried to make all these excuses for him. He was poor, uneducated, and most of all no girl has ever interested in him. And above all, I have failed my father, my creator, because I didn't come to his defense fast enough that he has nothing to do with my deranged brother's upbringing.
An interesting article about the state of <i>madrassah</i> education in Pakistan. <a HREF="http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0824/p01s04-wosc.html">Pakistan, US take on the madrassahs</a>
Affirmative Action was a result of white's "apology" to blacks. Don't mean it literally, but it was the collectve guilt of enough whites at the times to allow it to come to being. Without their support, black folks could march all they wanted and had their heads knocked to the ground all day long, no meaningful law helping the blacks could have ever passed at the times. It was a collective effort of blacks, Jews, and whites sympathetic to the plight of black people. "Do you think everything has changed 100% in 40 years?" No, definitely not "100%". Have real progresses been made? Yes. Should racial preference be stopped? Debatable. "It's not about guilt, it's about ensuring people have a fair shot." It's a result of white's guilt and others. It was about ensuring people having a fair shot by allowing racial preferences to rectify past wrongs. "In a White House memorandum on the same day, he called for the elimination of any program that "(a) creates a quota; (b) creates preferences for unqualified individuals; (c) creates reverse discrimination; or (d) continues even after its equal opportunity purposes have been achieved." Tell that to a poor white from a coal mining family in West Virginia who can't get into a law school even though he has a higher LSAT and gpa than the next black person from a wealthy family that originally came from Jamaica. " Creates preferences for unqualified individuals" doesn't exactly mean "creates preferences for lesser qualified individuals". By eliminating quota and racial preferences, it'll not be anything resembling close to what Affirmative Action has been for the past forty some years. "Again, this group of is made up of all American Muslims. They don't owe anybody an apology, it's shame that they've been made to feel that they do." [/B][/QUOTE] Agreed. They are the Muslims least needed to apologize, albeit don't be surprised to find some radical elements even among our fellow American Muslims, don't be surprised if hatred towards Jews and others were preached in few of their mosques. But they did, and I admired that. There is nothing wrong to take the lead for the rest of the Muslim world to see. In the name of Muslim brotherhood, it's only natural for SOME American Muslims to feel ashamed of the atrocities committed by some of their fellow Muslim brothers from other parts of the world.
I guess i see what you are saying. I am damned angry everytime there is a terrorist act. But still saying, i wouldnt apologize for it. As for protesting against it. They dont come from one country or state, so if i sit here in America and protest, it sure as hell doesnt affect say Londoners. They wont give a crap about my protest, and tehy will continue to do these nasty deeds. Dude, you have no idea how against suicide bombing I am, when I was in saudi arabia, i got in an argument with a dumass at the mosque who was all celebrating the kidnapping of the american. I was like Islam doesnt allow these types of things, Islam doesnt allow killing a person just coz he or she is of a different religion. Islam doesnt allow the killings of Kids or Women, and to even bring them into the eqation is haraam(ofcourse unless you are in a war and they are fighting too).And never have I judged a jew, I have 3 jewish friends who i am still close with (after graduating high school). And about the women, there isnt a normal muslim with his head on straight who doesnt allow a woman their fair share, and their freedom.
Never said you are one of those fundamentalist. Never said you should apologize, especially if you have done your part to defend the good name of Muslim. Don't think any of those lunatics would be here to discuss about Rockets basketball anyway. It wouldn't hurt at all to see MORE American Muslims marching down the streets to protest against terrorism, against Bin Laden, against injustice towards Palestinians as they see it as long as with the same fervor against those blowing up themselves near school buses in Israel. Some whites marching along with blacks did that against racism during the 60s, even though they might had never been racists themselves. And I agree that any Muslim who doesn't allow women their fair shares in their societies "isn't a normal Muslim". Unfortunately, there are many abnormal Muslims in that part of the world. Call it cultural or religious differences if you want to, it's still discrimination to me. Since you didn't respond to the rest of the post. I'll post it again. "On the other hand, I should feel ashamed and apologetic because my brother had committed one of the most heinous crime of all. I must confess I had tried vehemently denying it ever happened, even knowingly I knew he did it. I felt so ashamed because once his crime was utterly unrefutable, I still tried to make all these excuses for him. He was poor, uneducated, and most of all no girl has ever interested in him. And above all, I have failed my father, my creator, because I didn't come to his defense fast enough that he has nothing to do with my deranged brother's upbringing."
but still, it was your brother who did it not you. My brother got suspended from school for punching a teacher. I for one would never apologize for him. i had the same teacher, and never would I apologize, coz i didnt do it.
I don't think you really understand the points in my last post. Let me put it this way. Your brother has been accused of punching his teacher. If knowing from your brother previous behaviors and assume they ain't that great, rather stating a lack of knowledge you vehemently denied it could ever happened. You went on to claim it was a conspiracy by other students in the class. And once it's been proven he did punch his teacher, you started making different excuses for him, blaming the teacher for favoritism towards the other students, which may or may not be true. Let all assume that still doesn't justify your brother's aggressive behavior toward the teacher. Now, tell me honestly. Did you really think you had done no wrong, that you don't owe the teacher an apology. Now, replace "your brother" with "radical Muslim fundamentalists" in the above post, "teacher" with "9/11, or just America if you like", "other students in the class" with "Jews", "teacher for favoritism towards other students" with "America supporting Israel". Interesting, huh? Hope this makes it clear for you.
i was hoping you werent thinking of that, coz thats what i got from your post, but i wanted to divert from that thought because i knew where it would lead to, another stupid argument tht lead to the closure of the previous thread.
Dude, you can apologize for him and his actions without apologizing as him. You are obsessed with the blame game, it is juvenile.
really? is the teacher a gay muslim? just kidding seriously though your brother should be expelled not just suspended if he did do that.
So let's just go 50 yrs without apologies and then rack it up to activities of many yesterday. And one last thing, the Japanese (those who lived during the war and those who are offsprings) refusal to apologize for not denouncing or stoping the actions during WWII is a major powder keg in SE Asia right now. Edit: I after re-analyzing the post, I do think that we're arguing about different things. But I was just trying to say that many heinous acts have gone without apologies by those who didn't commit them. I for one don't believe that those who aren't responsible have a moral responsiblity to apologize (whether it's japanes offsprings, non fundamental muslims, non molesting catholics, no church bombing fundamental christians, non school spirited Aggies etc etc) but that's just me.
Let look at each examples you brought up. The atrocities by the Imperial Japan in WWII isn't exactly like an ancient history as the Mongolian invading Europe. There's no legit comparison there. There are still victims alive todays all over Asia who had suffered tremenously from Japanese aggression. Unlike the German who had openly APOLOGIZED for its behaviors to its neighbors, and had "buried the hackchet" so to speak. The modern Japan hasn't shown any intent or even regret to do so. Under pressure from its conservative wing, the government even attempted to change the contents in its school books to justify the War. On the other hand, our American government had apologized to Japanese Americans, blacks and even our native Americans (not sure about this one) albeit it was long overdued. You can't just "bury the hacket" whenever there is injustice being done. Sometimes it might be appropriate to do so, or simpily even practical, like the Mongolian invasion in ancient times. To a certain degree, even the young Japanese, not including children of course, might owe Japan's neigbors an apology because many of them stood idle by when their government attempted to change their history books. Imagine our own government tried to repudiate the history of slavery, and you and the rest of your friends did nothing about it. Now back to our American Muslim brothers, the question whether they needed to apologize. As stated in my previous post, they are the Muslim least needed to apologize. It was great that they did. They did it and I admired it. It was more a gesture than a needed apology. It reflects the benevolence of their religion. It showed the rest of the world the ability of some Muslims in self examination. They felt ashamed of the horrific behaviors by their Muslim brothers in other parts of the world in the name of their Creator. It was for the denial of some of their brothers and sisters, including some Americans here , that 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy, and the West, including America, are enemies of Islam. So, please stop criticizing them. We should feel proud that some of our own American brothers and sisters have the courage to do so.
Some final words. The world would be a much better to live only if people are more willing to apologize for themselves or on behalf of their loved ones than running amok for revenge. Peace.
nah, he was just sent to Juvenile detention after that... Come on man this is Houston, People stab teachers in this city, a punch, pshh.
I was thinking the same thing http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/june/nf70623a.htm Rocket River . . .it will NEVER happen . . but it would be nice
What if marches occurred in your town and you didn't know about it? What if, instead of marches, mosques opened up and asked people within the larger community to come and hear the apology and the anti-terrorist stance? What if local leaders/imams went to churches, synagogues, temples, etc., and spoke to the congregations emphasizing the Islamic belief in brotherhood with Christianity and Judaism, as well as the disgust at suicide bombings and the 9/11 attacks? What if newspaper ads were taken out identifying Muslims in America as American Muslims who are against terrorism and all the other crap and instead believe in the ideals of this country? What if Muslims took part in the large candlelight vigils and peace marches after 9/11 and, instead of going as a religious entity, they went as members of the community? What if I told you this has already happened? What if I told you that this is happening? Would you care? Are you looking to see this occurring in person, in your community, in your church/synagogue/temple before you believe it? ----- Meanwhile, there have been many groups (ISNA, CAIR, local groups) which have apologized for the actions of the terrorists who claimed Islam lead them to the 9/11 attacks and everything else (Cole, the first bombings, etc., all the crap). I guess this one stands out because it's so direct... but this has been happening since 9/11/2001. I'd also like to point out that many Muslims were scared out of their minds after 9/11. I know that at my mosque, we were told to not go out for MONTHS because people were worried about being hurt. Going to the grocery store was a terrifying thought for many people in the months following the attacks.
Now how about the Bush Administrators apologizing for the bombing and killing in Iraq? I gussed not since this will just make them look bad.
Random groups have already apologized for slavery, just as this group has apologized for terrorism. I would say the two apologies are very similar: they might do something to ease the conscience of the apoligizers, but doesn't do much for the people they are apologizing to. So random NGO's apology won't matter unless they can legitimately claim to represent those responsible.
plain and simple, if they only apologized for not doing much towards opposing terrorism, or if they apologized for not protesting to stop terrorism, or if they apologized for sending the wrong message to their people which in effect may have led to terrorism then its all good. But apologizing for 9-11, when they didnt do it is a whole nother story.
