I think spoken word, poetic lyricism, and rapping are things that find their foundation in rhythm and beat, but cannot be associated with music as a separate genre in their isolated forms. Unless, of course, they accompany music.
Food isn't music though. I'm not even saying if enough people buy it, it should be considered as such. People buy Fast food because it is cheap and quick. Still...FOOD isn't music and besides I doubt people would have a whopper as their #1 thing to eat. If they did oh well, tastebuds work differently than opinions. I'm saying if enough people consider it as a great piece of art, then it is. Yes a lot of people like Bieber, but how many people/critics are calling him a musical genius or anything of the sort? Will Bieber stand the test of time? I'm not here to judge others opinions, which is what Art is about. It is subjective. I dislike when people say "You have no opinion on this!" because they have not seen enough or heard enough music. This is not a debate on string theory. Everyone has a valid say in this. Art is an expression and that piece may have moved that person more than you ever could realize. On a technical level? I don't really care too much for that when it comes to music. Music specifically what many people consider good music to them is music that can draw out some type of emotion. Not EVERYONE can make a song that can make people want to get up and dance. Is it more simplistic than other forms of music, yes realistically it is. That doesn't make it less though in my mind.
Also don't want to be confused as saying there is no such thing as bad art. Obviously there is. I can't write a book filled with grammar mistakes and gaping plot holes and expect it to be well received. But I don't look down on public opinion, great things usually survive the test of time. To the point where people will look back 100 years from now and say 'Man was that a great movie, song, book?' I believe Kanye has a better shot at surviving that test better than Bieber though who is more likely just a passing craze with teens.
The fast food thing was an expression, not a direct comparison... And second of all, yes sure, art is subjective. But we should also take time to understand what makes good art good. That's why we have music appreciation classes, that's why we have art history. Why do certain pieces of art stand the test of time, and why do others fade into obscurity? If you look at Aristotle, you'll see that he actually tried to figure out why, technically and aesthetically, certain plays were good and others were not good. It's easy to say that art is "subjective" and just go about liking what you like, but it's another thing to actually understand what makes something a real piece of art. Otherwise you open the floodgates for studio-produced bubblegum pop that merely see an opening in the market. It's important to explore the depth of art and capitalize the importance of doing so or else you'll eventually get to the point we've gotten to today on the radio.
If you aren't a fan of hip hop then it's highly unlikely that you would care for a hip hop artist. Does it bother you that some of your favorite bands do?
Well I don't see anything I can disagree with there. I just believe that public opinion has a large say in what is great and what is just average, the test of time is usually public opinion. Just that it usually is a different generation having the same opinion as the previous.
His beats are good but his lyrics are garbage. Especially his flow. Wussup with him sounding like he's taking a dump at times? Lyrically he's no where near the likes of Eminem, Electronica, Lupe, Crooked I, and immortal technique.
Kanye is the best at everything he does except lyrics. When it comes to choosing words, he's one of the best at choosing words that sound good. What creates this polarization is that his words are among the worst lyrics anyone has ever written in their lives IMO. This is why I'm able to enjoy his music, because I focus on the good parts and drown out the bad parts. Just like there are artists who are very average with producing music, but great with words, I can enjoy that. If Kanye just made music for someone like Common and never actually seriously wrote the words himself, the would be one of the greatest ever at doing that. The man is extremely creative IMO, but he's phonetically gifted. IMO he's definitely not a hip hop artist, it's a travesty to call him that. I would say his style is a fusion of hip hop and other influences. If you take love lockdown for example, how can you call that hip hop? I'd call him an urban artist who is excellent at everything except choosing meaningful words. But no one will ever come to agreement on music, which is what makes music such an amazing phenomenon in the first place, and what makes it IMO almost illogical to debate what is "good" and "bad" music. Judge artists by their stated goals, rather than by what you define as good music. Then listen to what you like.
How is "put the p***y in a sarcophagus" not quality lyrics? Of course people who only like the obscurist of obscure music will hate him. I say whatever - I usually loathe rap and "twisted fantasy" is one of my top 20 favorite albums of all time.
So the general consensus is that he is Dr. Dre like in his ability to be a producer and Eric B. like in creating beats. Yet, his flow is weaker Spinderella of Salt N Pepa and he has questionable lyrics (in terms of quality but not everyone agrees on this). Question - who is the better rapper, from a flow perspective - Kayne or Dre. Dre? Sounds like to me he is just the next Dre but not as gangsta?
is it not true? music snobs hate anything that a lot of people like. i did say the album was in MY top 20 of all time. and i'm not calling YOU a music snob or anything...
If we're talking about what makes him different from other rap artists I think it's pretty simple. It's because his production is vastly more creative than most while still being "pop music" that's accessible and catchy. No other artists can (or at least attempts to) find that same balance.
Well, I do consider myself a music snob. But that is just for humor. But I just think the mainstream vs. indie/obscure mantra has jumped the shark. It's almost to the point where the 'mainstream' listeners have developed the 'hipster' approach to music. Being more concerned with the image and status of the music rather than the music itself. I don't like Kanye because I don't think his music is anything special or revolutionary. His style of hip-hop does nothing for me. It has nothing to do with his popularity or mainstream status. this was not really directed to you FB or anyone in particular. I guess I'm the one spamming my worthless opinion in this thread.
