I was watching a part of "Aliens" last night. I think the whole premise for making "Alien 3" is based a on a faulty premise. How did an egg get on the evac ship Bishop brought down after the first one exploded? The queen had removed herself from her egg laying lair when Ripley went nuts on the egg fest. She followed Ripley and Newt via the elevators. Where did the egg come from...cause the Queen certainly wasn't carrying one and how could the Queen just lay an egg on demand without the whole tubule thing she was connected to? Then, the queen came out from where it was hiding when the ship landed in the mother ship. Just where was this egg supposed to be that facehugged an alien in Ripley to start Alien 3? It seems like they could have come up with a better way to transition to Alien 3 versus what they did. It's almost like they didn't think the series would continue so they made up some BS to keep it alive. Was there an egg on board? Yes. But, where did it come from? Apparently, it came out of thin air cause it certainly didn't come from the Queen and there was no other opportunity for another egg to be planted. And, even if there was another opportunity, is some random Alien walking around carrying an egg? I know...it doesn't have to make sense as they will do whatever it takes if they want to continue making films. Am I missing something on how that egg got on board the mother ship?
Do you remember what happen to SpunkMeier and the second ship? There was an Alien ON the mothership before the Mother came aboard. Rocket River
I remember the first ship they originally came down on from the mother ship when they first landed. It was infiltrated by an alien and attacked the pilot exploding when it was going to pick up the surviving marines after they just got their butts kicked in the atmospheric processor plant. Are you saying that ship went back to the mother ship after it dropped off the marines initially and went back to the mother ship with an alien and the eggs? If so, then I don't recall seeing any mention of that. I thought they just left after they dropped off the marines and relocated to a different landing site until they were needed again. Or, if you mean something else, then please elaborate.
When the 1st ship was coming down to retreive the marines . . . . it crashed because the pilot was attacked by an alien. That alien evidently killed the . . navigator i think . . . spunkmeier then went to kill the pilot. I think we are to assume the alien was roaming until that point . . on the mother ship Rocket River Rocket River
Okay. That means the first ship went back to the mother ship. Not for one second did I ever think that watching the film. I just assumed they dropped the marines, relocated to a different site away from where the marines were infiltrating (probably to protect the ship in case the aliens attacked the marines), were then infiltrated by an alien, were then attacked by the alien, and the ship exploded on the way to pick up the marines after looking for survivors in the plant. So, that scene where the pilot is telling the other guy to get on board and he touches his hand on the alien goo per the open hatch/door...was that scene on the planet or on the mother ship? I thought they were on the planet at that point. If they were on the mother ship in that hand goo scene, then I totally missed that.
No, that doesn't make any sense. The bit with Spunkmeyer and the chick pilot happened because the dropship was sitting around, waiting to be called, *on the ground, in an un-secure location, WITH THE BAY OPEN, so that any alien which happened to wander by could just hop right in.* We see evidence of this when Spunkmeyer is called back to the ship, and as he enters, we see him react to some 'alien goo'. We presume he is then immediately killed offscreen. That is because the pilot calls for Spunkmeyer repeatedly, but receives no answer, and when she turns around, she sees the alien is onboard with her, and it promptly kills her, and crashes the dropship, subsequently both destroying the troops' rover, as well as critically damaging the reactor in the atmosphere processor. In no way does this imply that the alien which came aboard the dropship ever made it to the Sulaco, or in fact that the dropship ever returned to the Sulaco at ALL. So no, that's not the answer. (Unless you are saying that yet another 'drone alien' happened to pop onto the SECOND dropship when Bishop remote-piloted it down to the surface and then hopped on board to then rescue Ripley and Hicks, and that, while Ripley THEN went back into the atmosphere processor to rescue Newt, the alien simply sat idly by on the dropship while they waited for Ripley to return, with a disabled and unconscious Hicks and a vulnerable Bishop were there as 'easy pickings'? And that this drone alien then accompanied everyone back up to the Sulaco, unseen and undetected, and stayed completely hidden, especially during the fight when the queen was being destroyed, and never made a move to intervene? And then waited for everyone to settle into their hyper-sleep chambers, get underway, and THEN somehow manage to transform itself into a Queen, lay an egg (or eggs), infect Ripley (if not also Newt and Hicks), then crash the ship on that stupid prison planet? Ridiculous! Absurd! Hehehe NO way.) Definitely not the answer. The ONLY possibility is that the Queen somehow laid an egg on the Sulaco at some point between the time the dropship landed in the bay, and then the few seconds later when it attacked Bishop. And this, as noted in the previous post, is a preposterously thin foundation upon which to base another film. In fact, that is one of the reasons why the entire premise of Alien3 was so horrible. Not only did it entirely wipe out the primary motivator for Ripley from Aliens (Newt), but it also completely eliminated what appeared to be a possible 'love interest' in Hicks, all before the film even started. It ALSO completely destroyed the 'victory' gained when Ripley defeated the Queen at the end of Aliens, which is one of the most satisfying cinematic climaxes in history. So not only is it horrible, it sought to retroactively undo everything which made Aliens great. Count me among those who hate HATE HATE!!!! that movie. I don't even consider it a legitimate sequel. It never happened, as far as I am concerned.
Alien 4 should have never happened, either...cause it's premise comes from extracting DNA from Ripley after she was implanted and cloning her with the alien inside her. I seem to recall in "Alien 3" Ripley asked the reactivated Bishop "was there an alien on board?". Notice she said alien...not facehugger or egg. So, it implies another alien did infiltrate the mother ship and brought eggs with it. Just not sure when that opportunity could have happened...like you said...unless the first drop ship did go back to the mother ship with the alien and eggs after dropping the marines initially. But, it seems silly the first drop ship would go back to the mother ship cause, if the marines needed them asap, it would take longer to get to the marines and leave open the opportunity for them to be wiped out. The only other explanation is an Alien and eggs got on the second drop ship with the Queen...which to me makes no sense cause where was that opportunity? What if Bishop really was evil in "Aliens" instead of a redeeming robot like Ripley thought. So, when he said he had to leave the platform cause it was unstable, he actually was picking up eggs (and an alien?) so they would be able to bring them back to the corporation...just like Burke was trying to implant Ripley and Newt for the same reasons (Bishop hid them in the bathroom of the second drop ship...lol). Or, the alien/eggs latched on to a different part of the second drop ship with or near the Queen. Whatever...it just doesn't seem to add up based on what they showed us and we have to make up how that happened by ourselves.
Well, any lines spoken during Alien3 don't count, so I wouldn't worry about anything she said in that movie.. hehehe And yeah, even if that is what they intended, to imply that Bishop was just an evil corporate robot, that yet again shats upon Aliens, because it destroys another aspect built up in Aliens - that Ripley overcame her hatred of 'synthetics' by finally being able to see that Bishop was *good*, and that not all synthetics were evil and soulless corporate pawns. And of course any sequel AFTER Alien3 also doesn't count. So, yeah, whatever. I honestly think they could just come along and make another Alien3, and pretend the first one never happened. Why not? It's not like there's a law against it or anything. I think that would be awesome, to give fans what they would actually want...
As a longtime Alien/Aliens fan, I have to say that the third and fourth movies were botched abortions of movies. In my mind, they don't exist, much like the horrid Wolverine movie and the second Arnold Conan movie.
The whole part about the robot redeeming itself in the eyes of Ripley after her encounter with the other robot in Alien was kind of dumb. It was like Ripley found a reason to trust and like robots again but robots aren't human. Yet, Ripley seemed to come to the conclusion that Bishop did good near the end of Aliens and she was now fine with a synthetic being around. Bishop's motive all along would have been programmed and to behave according to how he was programmed. So, they just programmed him to do the right thing most of the time to maintain good relations with the crew while also programming him with the data to bring back an alien no matter what the cost. The idea that the next robot in Aliens was somehow a better programmed robot who would do the right thing and gain Ripley's trust is just silly given the alterior motives of the robot in Alien. The corporation did not change. Their sole goal was to get an alien and come up with military uses for it. No doubt Bishop would have been programmed to secure an alien as well. This is why I could see Bishop saying "oh...the platform was unstable and I didn't want to risk it". But, he actually went back to the lab and grabbed a couple facehugger specimens. Then, it led to what happened at the start of Alien 3.
Well, the implications are that the newer version of robot was endowed with 'behavior inhibitors' - ie as Bishop himself says, 'I can neither harm, nor allow a human being to be harmed.' This is of course a nod to Isaac Asimov's 'I, Robot' series, in which his 'Laws of Robotics' are now ubiquitous. Regardless, it was clear that the filmmakers in Aliens fully intended for the Bishop character to be a sort 'redeemer for his kind' in Ripley's eyes. There was no cynicism there, and to ascribe that cynicism to Aliens is still yet another reason to hate Alien3. Aliens was badass and uplifting, the good guys WON. Alien3 was just .. dirty. Ugly, cynical and dirty.
Bishop could still "behave" and have a priority to bring back an alien to corporate. The two are not mutually exclusive. I have a hard time buying that Bishop didn't have the programming to secure an alien through any means when that was the goal in Alien. Everyone in Alien was expendable to secure an Alien. Why would the corporation then send out a robot with behaviorial inhibitors that is a "good" robot then...when their goal of securing an alien obviously was top priority? I'm sure they didn't want the robot attacking crew members like happened in the original...but that robot's main goal was to bring back an alien based on mother's orders. To me, the most believable premise for eggs getting on board the mothership is Bishop left after he dropped off Ripley to find Newt, went back to the lab, collected a few live facehuger specimens, returned to pick up Ripley/Newt, and brought them back. And, he just told Ripley he had to move the ship cause the place was coming apart...which really wasn't true until the very end when stuff was literally falling down around them. That is the only way I will accept the setup for the next alien movies which shouldn't have been made. lol Thank God we don't have to continue those movies and they went to a prequel...cause the next film would have been they brought the alien to Earth at the end of Alien 4 (albeit could have been cool to see aliens take over Earth).
I don't think so, there is still to much that would argue against it. Consider the fact that Burke was trying to accomplish that very thing *in secret*. If the company still had some kind of mandate to bring back an alien *at all costs*, then Burke's whole involvement, and in fact his whole reason for being there at all, vanishes. But he was trying to manage to bring back an alien on his own, so he would somehow retain exclusive rights to whatever profits it might generate as some sort of weapon, and keeping 'corporate' completely out of the loop. Not only that, but we are talking about a 'corporate mandate' that had to have been at least a hundred years in the past. It's extremely likely that such a mandate would no longer be in effect, especially for new models of synthetics created a hundred years later. Weyland was in the business of selling those robots to consumers after all, there would have to have been some kind of ironclad assurance that those robots could never harm people. AND, the Nostromo was a 'company-owned' vessel, but the Sulaco was a military vessel, not company-owned. Had the mission not been entirely screwed by the crashed dropship, there is no way the military personnel would have ever allowed an alien to be brought back alive, whether Bishop tried to do so or not. No, that whole notion simply doesn't fit into the Aliens universe. Alien3 totally sucked, but it is great to be able to talk about all this now, especially with Prometheus on the way... :grin:
Burke had his own motives. Weyland had their own motives (the guy even showed up in Alien3 at the end...implying Weyland and the military brass had an agreement to secure an alien no matter what the cost). All military personnel are expendable. The premise being if Bishop is programmed to bring back aliens...the facehuggers would take care of some of the crew and the burst aliens would take care of the rest. So, it wouldn't matter whether the military personnel would allow it...cause they would all be dead. bishop miscalculated, however, because he wasn't counting on a fire breaking out and a jettison of the pod to the prison planet. this is why bishop didn't want to be rebuilt...not because he would never be as good as he was before (which makes no sense given it is all computer chips)...but because he failed to complete his original programming priority order to bring back an alien. lol. you have your premise and i have mine. maybe we should debate what happened at the end of the "planet of the apes" remake with Mark Wahlberg? nah :grin:
GAHHHHHH (sticks fingers in ears) LALALALALALALA That Tim Burton PotA movie was... it was... well, it was not good. Anyway, I can't accept anything that happened in Alien3 as any kind of justification for re-writing things that happened in Aliens. So, the human upon which Bishop was based showing up at the end of Alien3 is totally irrelevant. This is really about how they tried to get from Point A (the end of Aliens) to Point B (the beginning of Alien3), and the enormous and unreasonable leaps of logic, revisionism of events, and wild supposition necessary to arrive at an end product which was almost universally reviled. Now like I said, I actually do not dislike the movie that much, I just think it would have been better served by making it a stand-alone sci-fi horror movie, totally apart and unrelated to the Alien universe, and it would have actually been much better received. As it is, it took all the massive amount of goodwill gained from Aliens and spat on it, every single bit of it. And for that, I despise and shun it for being what it is: a slap in the nuts to every fan of Aliens.
Nero bringing it with authority! Spot on across the board. I also disregard everything after Aliens. All of them are badly saddled with the poison of Hollywood Studio involvement. They tossed two different, good, visions of how to good forward from Aliens, and in the end slap jobbed 3 in a hasty manner, from the script to the director on down. It literally brought nothing to the table, and took things away from the second. 4 was just a mess. There's no reason to think to much about the beginning of A3 - it was a standard write out that probably didn't get more than 10 minutes of thought behind it. If you're determined to believe it was canon, then you have to go with the idea that the Queen crapped one out. I really doubt the giant tubes are a necessary component - they just help spread the eggs out so they aren't one massive pile. IF Bishop brought one along, he would have had the sense to secure/isolate it like they were doing in the lab. Plus "he can't allow a human to be harmed" that alone precludes him knowingly setting up an egg for the crew. Besides, it does the Corporation no good if a Xenomorph crashes the ship.
Back to Prometheus... Was rewatching Blade Runner today, partially because of my anticipation for what Ridley Scott is going to do with David. I then coincidently ran across this: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/45222/prometheus-android-inspired-by-blade-runner-not-alien I think Batty is a fantastic sketch to draw from
