Max, I don't take issue with you being a casual fan or a bandwagon fan. Thats ok, because quite frankly, a good majority of any sports team fans are just that. What I take issue with, is you saying "they've only existed for 5 years" so why should I have loyalty when they have no identity? I have loyalty because the Texans are, whether they are 1 day old, or 5 years old, are like adopted sons to ALOT of fans. Which means, the more they lose, the harder we root for them. Just like Cub fans. "Loveable losers". I get satisfaction out of rooting for hometown teams because they are like my children. The more they get knocked down, the more I root for them to pick themselves up and knock the snot out of the next person that messes with them. You are wrong about them not yet having an identity. They do. They are losers (i know this sounds stupid and is hard to understand). But one day they will be winners, and the satisfaction of supporting that transformation is so much more fullfilling, IMO, than holding out 110% support until the transformation is complete. The more people rag on Carr (and unfortunately, both he and Mario are pretty much in no win situations at this point in their career), the more I want to root for him and the team. I see no greater story in seeing a shunned son proving his worth.
Clearly, I get that. But it's not about identity. It's just not how I understand that relationship between fan and team to exist. Or to develop. I THOUGHT I was a Texan fan. I was wrong. They lost me. I have NEVER, EVER, NEVER done that with a team before. I was wearing an Oilers hat until they moved...watching every game. You know how I am about the Rockets and 'stros. I'm surprised at how I feel about the Texans. But from the moment VY said he was going pro, I could tell I was divided. Because I knew that where ever he went, I'd be rooting for him at least as hard as I root for the Texans. All that stems from watching him in high school...and then watching him win for the Horns, the team I'd been following as long as I've been following the Rockets and 'stros. My father was a bigger Horns fan than any of the pro sports franchises. That's what I grew up with. Again..it's just part of me. So while I get that you have them as adopted sons...I just don't feel that way about them. Relationship is built over time, in my view. What's special to me about the Rockets and Astros is that they've been part of me for as long as I can remember. The Oilers were the same. Those franchises were/are like family. Trying to force a new team with new colors, logo and identity at 32 years old just seems silly to me. Just so forced. So when the game starts, I root for who I want to root for. I'm certain that most Sundays that will be the Texans. But that's not guaranteed, any more. Because frankly, I don't care past that their my son's favorite team. One more thing. I'm not a complete jackass. I'm at least a partial jackass...but not complete. I'm a 4th generation Houstonian. I'm INTENSELY loyal to the 'stros and Rockets. And I OWNED TEXANS SEASON TICKETS FOR THE FIRST 3 YEARS OF THIS FRANCHISE. When the Texans lose someone like me. When after 5 years, they can't capture someone like me...well...if you didn't know there was a problem with them before, you should now.
Its the same problem ALL the teams have in Houston... if they don't win, they lose fans. (even fans who grew up with the team, going to games with parents, legacies, etc.) If the Astros have a drop off in fandom next year, how can you blame people... especially the ones who didn't "grow up" with the team, and were simply along for the ride of the last three years.
i've never given up on the astros and rockets. do you really not see a distinction between the texans and the astros/rockets? am i seriously the only one who feels stronger for those teams than for the texans???
I don't mean to ridicule a huge financial commitment like season tickets, but they can't capture you because they never had you to begin with (and you've pretty much admitted that). Again, I have no problem with your thought process. But I'm with RM95 in that when the Texans do win and "capture you", then it leaves quite the bitter taste in those that are captured by what city the Texans are from, and not wins. Look, I liked Vince since Madison too. The bottom line is, the Texans are going to be around a hell of alot longer than Vince Young and I'd rather root for something that will around till the day I die than something that won't.
I don't. They are all from Houston. I think everyone has their favorite sport (i.e. if a Rocket and Texan game is on at the same time, I watch the Rockets). But my desire to see them succeed is equally strong for all.
I'm not saying you've given up... I'm saying a ton of Houstonians routinely give up on the local teams, regardless of the "situation" that comes with it (expansion, team hasn't been around long enough, team always chokes, team always loses, team just moved here, etc.). The Texans problem isn't all that separated from the Rockets from 4 years ago (drawing 11,000 at the Compaq Center)... or the Astros in the mid 90's (drawing 18,000 at the Astrodome). Those franchises were around for 30+ years, had seen some great playoff/championship moments, and they were still begging for fan support not too long ago. Of COURSE there's a distinction between ALL the Houston teams and the Texans... the Texans are the newest one. But by your reasoning, we should hardly ever root for an expansion team, because they weren't around during our childhood, and it will be impossible to have an emotional attachment with them. Its going to take time to develop an emotional attachment with this team (even though I still think you secretly have one, and you just don't realize it ). Its going to take some winnning, more losing, and simply more time... the day I am truly "devestated" by a Texans loss (which really hasn't happened yet) will be the day that I feel that time has come.
The BUTTF**KALLO Massacre. Hands down. It was like watching a horror movie of epic proportions and there was no pause for the suffering no lead up. One moment we were ruling the roost and minutes later we were saying WTF!!?? It was so improbable, that it does not even seem possible and yet, incredibly it DID! Glad I was out of the country when the debacle happened or else I may have shot MY TV set! LOL.
Win or lose, the Astros and Rockets have won fans over long ago. Guys like Bill Doran, Mike Scott, Nolan Ryan, Craig Biggio all played with tremendous heart and gave it their all day in day out. Fans applaud that kind of effort and dedication. Similarly with the Rockets, the '94 championship team epitomized teamwork, heart, and hustle. These are all key traits that win over fans and build loyal support. Meanwhile, the Texans have done absolutely nothing to foster fan support in their 5 years of existence. They've bungled drafts over and over again when all they had to do was use an auto-pick mock draft to select players. They hired an unemployed retread in Charlie Casserly to build the franchise, and drafted a heartless QB in David Carr to be its face. Against everyone's warnings they drafted losers like Jason Babin, Tony Hollings, Jabar Gaffney, Travis Johnson, and Dave Ragone while ignoring the HUGE holes on the offensive line. And then, of course, when it's time to come clean they draft Mario instead of Vince or Reggie. Madness. Moreover, the team has shown NO HEART whatsoever -> look at how they fold when the game is on the line. This has been happening for years. The Texans are completely irrelevant in the NFL, and they are not even close to competent franchise. They are group of heartless losers that are unentertaining to watch and have become the laughingstock of pro sports.
Nick, I'm not asking you to subscribe to my reasoning. I was telling codell why I feel the way I do. That's it. I'm not asking you to do anything. In truth, I wasn't responding to anything you had written. Root for whoever you want to. I'll root for the Texans too. Except when I don't. And then you can tell me whether my reasoning is good or not.
what i meant about the oilers statement was more people cared about the oilers. after they left people either went with them or just stopped watching football. i dont know about you but growing up...on my street we used to watch the oilers religiously on sunday. there was about a group of 10 of us and we'd watch the game together. after they left people either hated the oilers cuz of bud adams or didnt watch football anymore. i used to live and die with the oilers. i hate the bud adams for moving the team. i never adopted the titans. i never adopted the texans, because they're not named the oilers. the oilers had players that ppl respected. warren moon- although he beat his wife...earl campbell. haywood jefferies. ernest givens.... the list goes on when they lost to buffalo it was painful. people had their heart into the team thinkin that we could win the superbowl with that explosive offense. that was our best chance in the 90s...a little bit of everyone died that day vince young running all over the texans after they passed him up.....that was just funny. makes management look stupid. some so called texan fans wanted that to happen....and dont get it twisted. there were never ANY "so called oiler fans"....you either loved them or u didnt care for them
Nobody is doubting that... but there are examples from recent history that state that unless those teams win, the non-loyal fans will abandon those teams in droves just as fast as they caught on. How many new fans did the Rockets get by drafting Yao Ming? Chances are, after he leaves, the majority of them lose touch with the team... just as the majority of Rockets fans during the championship (Hakeem) years stopped showing up to games when it was Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley dribbling the ball for 22 seconds and jacking up off-balance shots. How many new fans did the Astros get by signing Roger Clemens and Andy Pettite? Chances are, if Roger doesn't come back... and the team is floundering... you won't see the routinely PACKED MMP on a random Friday or Saturday night during the season. As much as I'd like to say Houston is a great baseball town now, I just don't see it... its because they've had a chance to win. The Texans have the disadvantage of having no truly "life-long" fans that can claim automatic loyalty... but people will still cheer them on. Regardless, they have the same problem that all the other Houston teams have... Win, or you will lose fans. (even though the truly "loyal" ones only exist for the Astros/Rockets... and Dynamo, since they just won... and Comets, because they won before... and UH because they're going to the Liberty Bowl).
Well, I share the same view as them... so I was responding. Sorry to offend you by responding to your posts, or deciphering your reasoning. I already said I understood where you stand with the Texans... as there are countless people out there who probably tried their hardest to get into this team, and don't feel that anymore. I don't get devastated by Texans losses like I do Astros/Rockets, and as I did the Oilers before that (probably when I was most crushed by losses)... I know immediately that there's something wrong with that. But, I'd like to have that feeling again... we all would... otherwise none of us would even be bickering about this.
I agree with MM. The texans have never done anything to get a deep rooted fan base here in 5 yrs. They can't just show up and have deeply committed fans. They are just now planting their roots here, and they have done nothing but lose and make idiotic, unforgiveable mistakes to piss off the fans. Nothing the Rockets or Astros could do could shake my fandom. I have been a fan of them since I started watching sports. They have their roots firmly planted in this city for yrs. I still am a big Texans fan, if I wasn't I wouldn't be posting about them. I care about them and want them to improve, but in order for them to do that, they have to lose and get embarassed so McNair will finally get rid of Carr, a true fan that wants to see the team improve, would realize that winning and playing well will only set the franchise even farther back, and they would root for the Texans to get embarassed every week.
codell, im a 4th generation houstonian. i love this city. i defend it constantly. the texans aren't houston's in anything other than name at this point, as far as i'm concerned.
