I don't know who is hated more. But I see many more T O Fs in 2008 than S O Fs in 2002. I think the ratio is like 10:1.
then maybe you haven't followed the team long enough. steve is still THE man in houston in terms of popularity.
You know, when I first opened this thread, I thought T-MAC was the no-brainer answer to this but thinking back... Steve did receive an awful lot of criticism, particularly where his ball handling was concerned. Add on the SB incident and the idea that he and JVG didn't get along and the answer to the poll question isn't so simple. Yet I still think it's more T-MAC, mainly because many feel that the Rockets are so close and their failures have been so frustrating. Two 7-game series defeats in the first round followed by a six-gamer in which the Rockets had homecourt. The debate with Steve was always could he develop his ball handling skills to be a more dominating PG. That seems to pale in comparison to whether T-MAC has enough heart or is he leading the team enough or is he taking the right shots in crunch time or is he exercising his will in crunch time or is he not tough enough or why did he say THAT or why did he say THIS... So, yeah, I think it's T-MAC, and mainly because I think more is expected from him than what we ever expected from Steve.
Look Steve and T-mac are our guys, we should not beat them up so much. This year we are going to make it to at least the WCF. Steve is going to be in shape and I predict will be a valued contributor off the bench. T-mac is a monster and now that Rick's offense will boast 5 scorers on the floor at the same time the minutes will be vastl reduced. But for now Lets stop hating on the local heroes.
steve's play/game was much more criticized...and rigtfully so, imo. I never have liked francis. tmac's personality has been more criticized. perhaps that's because he has more God-given court talent than steve, so people lash at his ill-timed statements when he hasn't advanced past...yea, u know. I've never had a real criticism of tmac's game because I think he's one of the more brilliant people on the court. people rarely talk about tmac's bbiq, but it really is off the charts. steve's is...well...below the charts... in the end, neither has advanced in the playoffs. I don't blame steve or tmac for that, for neither, imo, had the cast to help them in a full series. that said, if either had a full, experienced cast around them come playoff time (on their own respective teams), I have much more faith in tmac advancing. he'd involve his teammates properly. steve would dribble, turn the ball over, pout, make worthless passes, and lose.
Steve was THE guy in our team. He really was the entire Franchise. He had to be our point guard AND our scorer. He had to be the young superstar that dunked better than Vince Carter, who needed to stop dribbling the ball so much, who had to drive more, who had to score more, but not jack up to many shots, he had to lead us to the playoffs, led us to the Finals, help Yao develop as a player, get everyone else involed, be a role model.......and he had ALL of this on him every single night! TMac is getting a fricken armchair ride compared to watch Steve Francis had to deal with! I'm not saying all the criticism wasn't warranted either. I just think TMac has it so easy right now, people are only asking question of him, they are not being critical of him and they SHOULD be. Personally Ive had a gutful of Tmac. I think he is a soft, fair weather player who has more than proved he hasn't got what it takes to lead a team to any sort of success. Pretty numbers, maybe he can be friends with SAR. Oh yeah, one last thing, don't **** with us 1999ers!
Well, it depends on how one measure criticism. If who was to be critised most frequently i.e. per day/match, it's Steve alright. We won 50+ times when we had TMac except for the year of BIG injury. Usually when we win, I would say we criticised less for eg. during the 22 wins, there are hardly any bad talks. During Steve era, we had a lot of losses, I mean a lot more compared to during TMac times. A lot of the losses were difficult to take (hair pulling). Day in day out after a loss, the fans would flood the forum to bombard Steve and his co. Almost after every match, there would be a trade proposal. Nowadays, the forum is more peaceful .
This is exactly what i'm talking about with him its PERSONAL, with stevie it was always about his game, about how he wasn't good enough. If i'm Francis at the end of the day i can live with that but for people to routinely attack you're manhood the way people do Tmac has to eat him alive. I would say stevie had more criticism but it wasn't as bad. C'mon, you know what i mean, when he was the franchise when asked people would just discuss how he couldn't get it done. When Tracy comes up and you're at the family reunion people are ready to chop off his genitals, Jesse Jackson style, that is IF they think he has any!
I guess this is the new Straw Man tactic since the old "if you don't love McGrady unconditionally you're not a true Rockets fan" line got exposed. The reason so many people complain about McGrady is for what he does, or rather what he doesn't do on the court. It's not because the mean old-timers of Clutchfans don't like him. Great post by Christopher. Preach on!
Oh geez, these newbies..... I remember Francis being criticized for all his off court stuff every day. When he wasn't walking on water or parting the red sea he was being thrashed daily about his personal life and his character! Then, everyone was thrashing him about basketball as well. Its not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. As for my personal attacks on TMac, hey, the guy is a b*tch. He can't play through pain, he seems to feel like he is entitled to something, he is a superstar just as long as the game isn't an important one. As soon as we hit the playoffs, that one crazy eye of his starts flickering, he starts moaning about his back...and we lose. Lets me tell you something, Francis wasn't the players anyone here hoped he would be. That didn't stop a single person being critical of him for not being another Michael Jordan. But for all his failings Francis played his ar$e off for this club and you knew he would run himself into the ground trying to win a game, even if he didnt have the skills to make it happen. If you put Steve Francis' heart into T Mac, we'd have won a title by now. When it comes down to it, T Mac is a great player when there is nothing to play for.
oh goodness ...i know...i know... my point is there's a genuine dislike for mcgrady there was not much dislike for francis, people just didn't think he was all that good. Sometimes i wish i could switch this moniker because people always dismiss my comments as some Tmac love. I could care less if he was traded tomorrow.
You know mate, I've just had a gutfull of it. We have a history of Rockets players that have played above themselves. That come out of no where, they have no experience, they are from unfashionable backgrounds, low draft picks, some were never even drafted, and they played their ar$es off for this team. We've had players that were not that good or too old who played with worse team mates who made us win, or died trying. Steve Francis was a kid who was asked to carry two NBA titles, a Final apparency we should have had in 97, the "Big Three" debarcle and a retiring god like figures as baggage when we was a rookie! Francis led a team with Kelvin ****ing Cato for trying out loud! In comparison right now we have a team stacked with talent. We have NO reason for failing. Its the perfect place for someone with the skill to be a great player to step into and walk into the finals. Yeah, its tough, and thats why we are screwed. Because the guy we're all counting on getting us to the finals doesn't do tough!
Well, verse made a comment a couple of posts up about how he personally never liked Francis. There are a few other similar lines directed against Steve throughout the thread, but you only found it necessary to highlight a snippet of Christopher's post as evidence for your case that McGrady's criticisms are all of a personal rather than professional nature. Christopher sends another one out of the park! That took courage, sir. The *** brigade will be in full force after that one.
Yes he said he never liked him but he didn't say he was a b*tch. I agree, Tracy has alot of b*tch *ssness in him but you don't hear that when it comes to Francis. As a man, i can live with somebody saying i do a poor job at work, i'm a poor role model, i have a bad attitude or whatever else but if somebody calls me a b*tch i'm liable to put them threw a window, barkley style. I never found fault in anything Christopher said i just quoted him to elaborate on my opinion.
To the guy that says this team is stacked is not watching. It look better as a unit than anything. Tracy is better than anyone on that roster and this yao is better than that yao, but Mobley is better than anyone on this roster after yao and tracy. Cato for all of his warts could block some shot,rebound and finish opposite of yao. If u merely swapped francis for tracy, I guarantee that team wins 50 games and is probably more threatning in the west back then.
Do they get out of the 1st round? Let me put it like this. 1. Steve Francis was HATED . . . RADIO PERSONALITIES *HATED* STEVE . .[MANY STILL DO AND ROUTINELY WILL GO OUT THE WAY TO DOG HIM EVEN WHEN HE WAS NOT PLAYING . . and yea. .some of them read this board] . Marc Fricking Vandermere even routinely ragging on Steve . . . . All they do on those stations now . . .is apologize and rationalize why Tmac ain't done this or that 2. The Rockets COACH *hated* on SF . . . JVG was NO WHERE near as critical of TMAC as he was SF . . . .heat checks . .. softness anything . . in fact JVG basically shifted critisizism to everyone BUT Tmac 3.Personal .. . PERSONAL . . .people still making Gay Jokes about SF SF seemed kewl with everyone on the team . . . TMac WILL FREEZE YOU *SS OUT [Ask MJames] . . . Close. . Close friendship and comraderie for SF = Gay . . for TMAC [when he should a ssmidgeon of emotion] folx act like he just embraced the team in a group hung 4. SF's commentary "WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER POINT GUARD" . . .remember that . . .BTW . . everyone who b*tch and Moaned about that . . .Do you want that POINT GUARD NOW . .since you wanna play the WHERE ARE THEY NOW . . . instead of YAO . . . IMO if SF had *any influence* on that [I don't beleive that but folx seemed to think he forced us to not draft J WILLIAMS] . . .well . . Thank you Steve Rocket River Hatred and Steve Francis . .. are as American as Apple Pie
