You can't just take the name "Brad Miller" and say he's not worth 8 wins. It has less to do with him personally than to do with where we were before. No Center --->> have Center ==== 8 more wins I'd say that's true for pretty much any center over 7' in the league. I love Chuck, but we lost games because we didn't have a center.
Here's another way to look at it: Having Chuck Hayes as your primary center = -4 games Having Brad Miller as your center = 4 games So what do we get this season? This way you don't have to say that Brad is worth 8 games. :grin: :grin:
That's so completely WRONG I don't know where to begin. Yes, Yao is older. But when he had surgery on his foot, Ilgauskus had already broken both feet twice. That's right -- he broke EACH foot TWO times and had three surgeries on his feet BEFORE he had his foot reconstruction. And while Yao has missed significant time in recent years, his injuries haven't all been to his feet. That freak knee injury he had was simply because another player rolled into him. And one of his surgeries was on his TOE, which obviously had nothing to do with the bones of his feet. I posted the following a couple of years ago. It's a detailed history of Ilgauskus' foot issues and their eventual resolution... Big Z's injury history: Remembering the repeated foot trouble that Cavs center Zydrunas Ilgauskas endured during the early part of his career, I did some poking around to find out exactly what those injuries were. I was not too surprised to find that like Yao, Z also had stress fractures of the navicular bone in his foot -- or his feet, to be precise, since he had the same issue with both of them. In fact, he sat out TWO entire seasons for each foot. Even more alarming: In a span of five years, Ilgauskas fractured the navicular bone in each foot TWICE. For the record, Yao (7'6" and 310 lbs.) is definitely bigger than Z (7'3" and 260 lbs.), but he's in the same ballpark their games and their injuries are pretty similar, so he's a good point of comparison. Here's a season-by-season look at Z's career: 1994-95 -- At age 19, played 36 games of pro ball in Lithuania. 1995-96 -- Did not play at all while rehabbing from a broken right foot. 1996-97 -- Missed his second consecutive entire season again after re-breaking the same bone in his right foot during summer ball and having surgery to repair it. 1997-98 -- Joined the Cavs and played in every game, starting 81 of them and averaging 13.9/8.8. Made the All-Rookie First Team and was the rookie all-star game's MVP. 1998-99 -- Played in only the first 5 games, averaging 15.2/8.8 before being put on the injured list with a sore left foot. It was diagnosed as a fractured navicular bone in February. 1999-00 -- Missed the entire preseason and season due to the injured left foot. He had corrective surgery in January of 2000. 2000-01 -- Started the Cavs' first 24 games, then again had pain in his left foot and was placed on the Injured List in December with yet another fracture of the navicular bone in that foot. Had surgery again in February of 2001 and missed the rest of the season. 2001-02 -- Missed the first 17 games while still rehabbing from the surgery on his left foot. At this point it sounds mighty damned depressing, doesn't it? Since his sterling rookie year, Ilgauskas had missed had missed 85% (155 of 181) of the team's regular-season games over a 2+ year span. The Cavs -- from the president and GM to the doctors to the players to the fans -- wondered if Z would ever play meaningful minutes again in his career. Now for the happy ending and the reason for optimism in regards to Yao: Amazingly, Ilgauskas eventually recovered from those injuries and had his best years by far afterward. 2001-02 (continued) -- Z started playing again in early December and only missed three games from that point on -- two with back spasms and one DNP-CD (reason unknown). 2002-present -- Over the past nearly SIX years, Ilgauskas has played in (and started) over 97% of the Cavs games -- 491 out of 505 games, counting regular season and playoffs. Even more encouraging: Of the 14 games he missed, I couldn't find any instances of it being attributed to foot problems; 1 game with a sprained knee, 3 with a sprained ankle, 4 with a dislocated finger, 2 due to league suspensions, and 4 for which I couldn't track down the cause. Z.'s problems started over a decade ago -- an eternity when it comes to sports medicine research. Things have improved substantially during that span. Microfracture surgery, for example, used to be a career killer (McDyess), but now it's merely a lengthy rehab and you resume your career where you left off (Amare). So while this season will be a struggle for the Rockets, there's no reason to believe this will necessarily cast a dark cloud on the future of Yao and the team. There's no way to know for sure, of course, but it definitely makes me feel better to know that a similar-sized player with a similar type of game has resumed a stellar career after overcoming repeated instances of a similar injury that could very well have derailed it. I would hope that Rockets strongly consider taking some or all of the following steps: * Let Yao "bulk down" a bit. At this point, he knows how to play the inside game well enough that losing 10-20 pounds wouldn't automatically make him a pushover in the paint like he was early in his career. Any loss of power should be offset by a similar improvement in his quickness. And more importantly, carrying less weight means less stress on the bones of his feet. * Reduce Yao's minutes, starting as soon as he returns. Ilgauskas has averaged around 30 mpg for most of his career -- and only slightly higher in playoff games -- mostly because he's prone to picking up fouls and has to come out. Yao, on the other hand, has seen his minutes go up and up, from 29 in his rookie year to more than 37 this year. And this decision has to come from the GM and coach, because Yao is not the type of player to ever ask for time off. Instead, it must be forced on him. * Find out what kind of special exercises and treatment Ilgauskas has been doing in the last six years. Might not help, but it certainly couldn't hurt. The bottom line: It would seem that with proper treatment and some smart changes on the part of the team, there's a good chance Yao can resume his career and not have stress fractures in his feet be a recurring theme. Let's all hope that's what happens.
Maybe if they just brought him off the bench like a 6th man, it will be ok. Bring him in with the 2nd unit and see what happens. This doesn't mean they're going anywhere, but it is what it is.
unbelievable. you spent your time to try to educate some fans on this board. you're much better than me. i just wrote one line to knock on their head. those fans really don't know what they are talking about.
I admire the research, but its easy to use common sense also. The body heals faster at 25 than 30 and thats not even up for debate. Also, yao had injuries as a younger man also prior to these recent injuries. One can use big z as a model i guess, but any player would rather go through this mid 20's vs 30.
Well, if they are going to use him like this throughout the season, he does not deserve a max contract, not even 10 million per year. That's one plus in this situation....
In both of these threads, this is the most succinct response. I profoundly wish a few things: 1) People realize that what's good for Yao now may not be the best thing for the Rockets and if he put's an injured foot down, both the Rockets and everybody's physicians will sing a different tune. 2) People realize Yao has enough money and appears to be less interested in another 20 million than the frustration he's been dealing with. And he might possibly be the only athlete (outside of Barry Sanders) that could say that. If he wants to play, he'll end up playing when he wants to, here or elsewhere. 3) People realize Morey never said Yao will never play in back-to-backs during the regular season. Yet people here keep saying it. Bottom line is that Yao can override any arbitrary opinion if he wants to. There's not a PR machine on the planet that can attack him effectively. It would be interesting to see Morey try to gloss anything Yao does over though.
Heh except that the issue isn't about healing at all is it? The question isn't whether Yao will heal. He has healed. What do you think the past season was about? Yao is cleared 100%. What does saying "you're body heals faster at 25 than 30" have to do with anything at all when he's already fully healed? Per DD's post 24 minutes is obviously a made-up number. Even when a doctor tells you have a year to live with lung cancer that's a made up number. There's no way for them to know exactly how many minutes will reduce injury or how many months before the cancer kills you. But it's an educated guess based on their past experiences. But could it be 26 minutes or 22 minutes? Sure. But that doesn't change the facts that 1) What's best for Yao is absolutely what's best for the Houston Rockets: having a 100% Yao for the playoffs. It doesn't even make sense to say otherwise. Yao is in a contract year so his best interest starts and ends with being both healthy and carrying his team far in the playoffs. Les has spent uncharacteristically and told Morey to win NOW. So their interests are perfectly aligned this season. Whether Yao put's and i'njured fo'ot down or puts and injured foot down or whether his foot is actually healed. None of that will change facts. 2) What evidence do you have that "Yao has enough money and appears to be less interested in another 20 million than the frustration he's been dealing with"? You must have something damn concrete since what you assume flies directly in the face of all of Yao's statements that he is pumped for the season and has never said anything about taking less money. If anything he's talked about proving himself and being worth his salary. 3) Morey has never said Yao will never do anything. All his remarks have been conditional, based on the further evaluations of the Houston medical staff. Listen to what he says http://kilt.cbslocal.com/2010/09/17/daryl-morey-with-marc-and-john-91710/#more-17502 Bottom line is that Yao is not in a position nor is he inclined to override any decision that anyone in the Rockets staff makes, least of all the doctors whose instructions Yao has accepted at every step of his rehab. If the coaching staff told Yao to go out there and play 40 minutes on a broken foot he'd do that. He HAS done that. Don't make it like he's a me-first player who's babying his foot when he's the ultimate team player.
Well IMHO we won't need more than 24 mins from Yao this season, not with Brad Miller and hopefully Dampier or even better that Utah C in the fold. His real value will come in the playoffs, when we have to against the Spurs, Mavs and the Lakers for 7 games.
You made some good research however Yao Ming isn't Big Z. Big Z's 7 feet is somewhat common for Europeans, however Yao Ming is will probably be the tallest Chinese player ever. Since he's a special case we're not sure how durable Yao Ming's body really is, so using the fact that Big Z's been ok even with two broken feet as reasoning to assume Yao Ming will be alright is probably not the way to go, esp. considering Yao Ming has like 5 inches and 50 pounds on Big Z. You might not think that 5 inches are a big difference, however please note that's basically the difference between someone like Kobe (6'6) and Tyson Chandler (6'11). So yeah, comparing big Z to Yao is like comparing a guard's body to a center.
Good point, except for it being wrong. Ilgauskus is listed at 7'3" and Yao at 7'6" -- they both might be an inch shorter than that, but the height difference is only 3 inches. The bigger difference between the two is their body type, with Yao having a much sturdier lower body than Z. Would that help him or hurt him in this situation? Who knows? I'm not saying Yao will be fine and have no problems -- what I am saying is that there is precedent for him making a good enough recovery to play an essential part on the Rockets team. And it looks like the team is making solid decisions on how to best help him get there.
Most big men start dropping off at age 30. There are exceptions like hakeem, but even he started to drop off a cliff a few years later. Look at guys like shaq and duncan. Even they started dropping except they were so good that a drop off didn't seem as big.
bloop, i think if he was fully healthy, he wouldnt be limited to 24 mins a game. Jordan broke his foot his 2nd year, came back 100% and played big minutes in the playoffs. 100% is no limitations. The foot restructuring thing might hold,might not,but we're still talking about a giant with ballerina sized feet. 7'6 300 lbs with size 17 feet is like leftwich at 6'5 wearing size 9's. Its really amazing he's held up this long.
I dont think you are grasping the subtle differences here between: broken foot - stress fracture healed - healing
larsv8, until you can do everything that you used to do, you're not 100%. You really dont know until you're in a highly competitive environment and get hot, you dont know. I was referring to the research by topfive comparing yao to z,but as you get older,you lose a % of health. Thats why you see a guy rebound and come back to form quicker and more useful at a younger age. I guess we will see what fully healed or 100% look like soon enough.
