And Memphis had far more leverage than Toronto, given that it was in the season and there was no risk of him walking for nothing. You don't think other teams wanted Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady 10 years ago when Orlando completed S&Ts for each?
So when has a free agent that's been signed and traded commanded something significantly more than, say, Hill, Budinger, expirings and two first rounders? Can you provide one example of history telling us that?
Absolutely, if the Rockets were constructed like Raptors. I'd consider it a pipedream trade if the all those assets were offered AND the other team was willing to take on Hedo's bad contract.
Wrong. Memphis's owner can't take the financial burdon is the reason. GM has to do what he is ordered to do. Not a fair trade, everybody except Lakers was upset about that. That's why it won't happen ofter. Bosh now is considered a better player than Gasol at that time. Memhpis got more than just 4 unkown picke. Mark Gasol + Crittenton(who was seen to have a lot potential) + 2 1st rounders. That was disscussed in another thread. Hill was damaged goods, Detroit knows he won't be the same after the surgery. Tmac wasn't even an all star at that point.
Problem is, "rookie rankings" and the like that you're referring to are based on past play, not potential. For example, if you draft a senior from a national championship NCAA team, they're probably going to be more ready to contribute in that first year. But will they be better down the line than a more talented, younger prospect? Not necessarily, and that's why you talent taken over experience on a regular basis. It's about the long-term, which your "first or second team" stuff doesn't take into account. The fact is, all evidence points to Hill being held in high regard by both the Rockets and Raptors, and that's all that matters here.
First, Bosh is not a free agent YET. And he better not be, otherwise Rockets won't have a chance. 2nd, there aren't many franchise players got trade around at all in their prime. When it comes to franchise players, normal sign and trade rule doesn't apply. As I can remember, Franchise player Tmac was traded for 3 starters including an all-star. Franchise player Shaq was trade to Miami for Odom, Butler, Grant and 1st rounder. When it comes to franchise players, teams get a lot in return. Bosh's caliber is close to and old Shaq at that point.
So if you don't belive in rookie rankings that much, don't take too seriously on that "Toronto want Hill" thing too. Rockets wanted Hill too, but they wouldn't trade Landry for him, let alone Bosh.
I'm done arguing with you -- you are truly clueless (bold part). And neither McGrady nor Shaq were free agents, thus making those examples irrelevant.
I'm talking about not being a homer to think our garbage has higher value than franchise players. You better look at any sign and trade including Franchis player in his prime than talk. Toronto won't hold Bosh hostage, I agree. But on the other hand, Bosh won't hold Toronto hostage either. It's a mutual thing. Both sides are smart, Bosh will get his money and be pleased to ship to a team he likes, Toronto will get a lot assets in return for Bosh's value. You seem to only look from one specifie angle. Bosh is not a FA yet. So don't treat him like one now. It is not illegal if he decides to stay for one more year. 30 mil is not overrated. Nobody knows what Bosh's value would be 3 years down the road since he is no longer in his rookie contract. And the new CBA doesn't look like to make more money for him if he doesn't cash in now.
That's why they want to get more than just 4 prospects. Otherwise they'll be in lottery year after year.
You better be done, othewise you'll find out who is really clueless here. Seems you have no clue that Bosh still has one more year left on his contract. As long as he doesn't opt out, he's NOT a FA. So far, Bosh hasn't opt out yet.
Done. Can't find any examples of a major deal for both sides. Can you? I think Kenyon Martin's 3 1st rounders was the biggest deal I've seen. Shaq and McGrady were not free agents, so don't try to compare their situations. They aren't comparable. Not really, you just don't value Jordan Hill, Chase Budinger and multiple 1st rounders like I do or frankly anyone else here does. Breaking news: Chris Bosh will opt out of his contract and become a free agent! Do you really not get that? He friggin' posted on his twitter asking where he should sign for next year! The new CBA will likely put caps on how much % wise a contract can go up. If he signs with Miami for four years and signs an extension for three more, he's no longer "losing $30M". I agree with you that he won't know if he's still worth a max extension in four years -- but he's 26, so he damn well better think he will be. You. Are. Clueless. Explain to me how the Rockets have no chance if he opts out? Best to my knowledge, the only we can complete a sign-and-trade is with.. you know.. a free agent.
I understand your argument, but sorry Bosh would only potentially lose $30 mil. under the current CBA (which will soon be toast) and there's no way he'll lose nearly that much. I love Morey and I'm one of the few that thinks he's promoting that $30 mil. loss for his own interests. The reason I brought up Stern is because $30 mil. to Lebron is of less concern to him than a single pair of sox is to me. Wade, I believe loves Miami. I don't care about Amare and that leaves the focus on Bosh. Toronto is teetering, the NBA can't afford Bosh to walk without compensation. No one is going to risk that happening. Bird rights be damned, Bosh can do anything he really wants to.
Kmart wan't the same caliber player and NJ didn't want to sign him max. Denver had nobody else to compete, yet NJ still got three 1st rounders. Bosh is way better than Kmart and you think Hill + Cbud + 2 1st rounders will do the trick, it's same as Tmac's expiring contract + Cbud = Bosh. You'd know it won't happen if you are not an extreme homer. Or maybe not like a homer? Ask Budinger,Hill and two 1st rounders worth a franchise player in any other badketball forum in the world and tell me what "anyone else" think? Last time I checke, the new CBA could be in favor or owners instead of players. That's alsot the biggest reason a lot college players enter draft this year. That, plus at 26 with some injury histories already, I don't think Bosh will be stupid enough to walk away from a huge contract and hope everything works out.
bosh must not pick up his option to be able to do s&t. it means bosh has to be a free agent for other teams to think about S&T.
CBA aside, Using your logic, Stern would want Toronto to get as much as possible. There certainly will be better offers out there than Dbud + hill + 2 picks, which doesn't even include one starting player.
That is true. I was carried away with 30 mil thing. But Franchise player in his prime simply won't get traded for garbage. It never happened and it will not happen.
Steve Francis might represent us in the lottery??? LoL, they were joking about it, but it would be awesome. Lighting could strike twice.
