I dont picture him doing so either just saying that its a small possibility basically though Houston may have the best package to offer Toronto compared to the other teams that gutted their roster to get the cap space. Toronto may have to take on more salary in the short term when dealing with houston but they should get more young rotational players/picks to help rebuild their franchise compared to trading with the teams with space that may just offer a single pick
This is also because teams are generally receptive to the sign-and-trade concept. As such, Toronto has already indicated that they will try and be receptive to Bosh's desires, like most teams would... so not many players get to the point where they would have to walk away from the $30 mil. Also, besides the obvious threat of being left with nothing, teams would run the risk of forming a bad reputation with agents and players if they tried to play extreme hardball with marquee free agents. (Yes, I know the way the Rockets handled the Landry situation. Difference is, that's not even remotely comparable to the focus that would come with the Bosh chase.)
The problem is your perception of garbage. Hell, if you go look at some of the Toronto forums, Hill + Budinger + picks is the exact type of thing they're looking for. Toronto might listen to the best offer, but it has to mesh with Bosh's interests. If Bosh says it's either he signs with NY/CHI/MIA (picks one of those) or is traded to Houston, it doesn't matter what the league as a whole offers. It's Houston compared with the team he tries to use as leverage. The smart play would be New York, since they have next-to-zero S&T assets since Morey cleaned them out for picks and Hill in February. If Bosh tells Toronto he's signing with New York or wants a trade to Houston, you better believe an offer centered around Hill and picks can get it done. Is that likely? I don't know, but Bosh and his team certainly have the ability to make a power play like that. It comes down to just how convinced he is on Houston, but make no mistake - he can still have a lot of leverage if he chooses, even if his preferred team is the Rockets.
Macrady said he won't resign with Magic if they don't trade him to the team he wanted to go. It was supposed to be even harder to get assests back in that case. Most sign and trade happens you mentioned happens when a player has made a decsion and he is able to sign with the team he wants to go, his former team would never sign him with the same amount of money so they will let him go if they don't get less. There are no competitors ourt there for Kmart's conctact, for Lewis's contract. Team doesn't have leverage if there is no competitor. But Bosh is different, there are a lot teams willing to sign him with max contract, there are competitors. Toront has leverage with so many competitors out there. And Bosh hasn't picked Rockets yet, and I doubt he ever will. Most likely he'll give several teams of his choice to Toronto and wait.
What the hell are you talking about? Bosh has to opt out in the first place to even be traded or sign for a team. Bosh has ALL the leverage -- Toronto is LUCKY to be able to get something back in return for him. Understand that. You seem to equate this to us trading for Bosh with several years left on his contract -- this is NOT the same scenario and he does NOT carry the same value. For goodness sake, look at every other damn SnT that has happened that people have posted here: NOBODY got a huge return for SnT stars. I agree, and I have said this all along, that Houston is one of the few teams Toronto has some leverage on. Miami, Chicago, etc.. they don't have any leverage. Bosh has been Toronto's franchise player for many years. Do you really think they'll risk the PR nightmare associated with holding him hostage because they're not getting a Kobe-ransom for a CURRENT free agent? Come on. The only way Toronto doesn't deal Bosh to us is if we're offering Jeffries, Taylor and other salary fillers that are trash. The fact that Jordan Hill and multiple 1st round draft picks is being discussed is a HUGE incentive for Toronto to do the deal. I just don't get why you think Bosh will command mid-season Kobe trade value -- he's a free agent!! And the $30M figure he'd "never walk away from" is greatly overstated. It's only $30M because the Raptors can add an extra year to his deal. So really, he could sign with Miami for 4 years, then sign a three year extension and hardly lose any money, if at all.
That makes zero sense. This is THE contract for Chris Bosh. This is the prime of his career we're talking about - and you think he's going to give a list to Toronto and let them choose for him based on what's most convenient for them? No, he's going to tell Toronto who he wants to sign with and try and leverage his way into making that happen. Will it work? I don't know, your arguments on that could have merit (though I largely disagree there as well - see prior post). But the idea that Bosh is going to give Toronto a list and more/less let them whittle it down is just silly. Bosh is going to do everything he can to go to the place he wants to go - the biggest question is whether Morey, Les and the Rockets can convince him that's here.
All depends on where Bosh wants to go. He could easily pick two teams like the Rockets and say the Knicks. One team would have to give up assets to Toronto in aquiring him and the other team could sign him outright and Toronto gets nothing. Yes Bosh wouldn't make as much with the Knicks contract, but he's got a little more leverage than some people are thinking. In the end it may come down to trading the T-Mac assets (Hill, Jeffries and 1st round picks) plus something else for Bosh. So basically a delayed T-Mac for Bosh sign and trade.
Well, you're wrong. The "30 million less" assumes the life of a max contract - not what Bosh can do if he's so inclined. He could sign a one year deal with NY for a couple of million less and still go where he wants afterward. If you were Colangelo would you even think about losing Bosh for nothing? You can argue Bosh would be taking a huge risk, but what GM could even risk the thought of that happening? No one. Furthermore, if Stern thought that was even a remote possibility he'd have a stroke and then threaten the ownership for all it's worth. Toronto isn't a bad team but the franchise is threatened, and Stern is determined that no team will ever be "Shaq'd" again. And back then the league was in better shape. With a new CBA looming I expect Bosh will be flexible up to a point, but he's still the one driving the bus here.
Well, you don't think it's garbage offer doesn't mean it's not. Hill + Budinger + picks really isn't something that high valued when Tmac's expiring contract can land you Hill + picks. Why would Bosh say either sign with NY/MIA/OKC or trade him to Houston? That's the biggest false assumption right here and I don't see it happening. There is no reason for Bosh to blackmail Toronto to risk his 30 mil. You can bet on that too.
Again another unique situation as Denver had collected their first rouders from previous trades. Unlike what the Rockets have now, not all of the Nugget's picks (15th, 20th, 22nd) had the potential to be lottery picks. The Rockets would be sending 4 virtual lottery picks if including Hill. Also Hedo/Calderon have negative trade value, they're being salary dumped.
No. Bosh can't sign with NY for one year for less money and still go where he wants. He'll lose his 30 million forever under current CBA. No team can sign him for 6 years at a max after that. Not to mention if he suffers an career ending inury in NY, he'll lost the biggest contract in his life for no reason. If I were Colangelo I'd think I can get a lot more than just bench players + picks for a franchise player. Houston is not the only team that will sign Bosh the max. I don't know how you brought in Stern in this case. If Stern has something to say, he'd get Bosh to NY instead of Rockets.
Memphis decided Pau Gasol was only worth Kwame Brown and a couple of late first rounders, I guess that proves his true worth, right? There is no reason? Dude, that's the entire concept - teams are more likely to do sign and trades, and have less leverage, because they could theoretically lose them for nothing. And if Toronto calls his bluff, then Bosh could easily go back and expand his list of S&T teams. He's not risking his $30 mil, because Toronto's not going to *refuse* to deal with him. If Toronto cuts him loose and says bye, they let him walk for NOTHING. That's not going to happen. Toronto might balk on one particular option, but there's zero risk of his $30 million. It would work somewhere.
Hill is no longer worth the lottery pick after his rookie year. Those 2 picks from NY are unknowns. It could mean low 1st rounders if NY signed the right players this summer. They don't need Lebron to compete in East. 1 low lottery pick plus 2 unkowns plus Hill is what you offereed here. Not even a proven young stud here. I think it's garbage for a franchise player. If Rockets have Bosh, would you trade him for 4 unkown prospects? Not a chance, I believe.
That's your opinion. Based on his play here, I think he's certainly worth that lottery pick. Based on anecdotal evidence from sources (see ESPN story), Toronto does as well. If he was a free agent and I was faced with minimal leverage and the potential of losing him for nothing, I'd definitely consider an offer of four young prospects. You really need a crash course in the history of NBA S&T deals and what they usually bring in return.
Memphis's main purpose was to dump salary, Toronto isn't. And Memphis got Javaris Crittenton,Marc Gasol plus two 1st rounders even in that case. Still, that trade is considered the most lopisided deal in recent memories. It's fishy and it's not gonna happen often. " teams are more likely to do sign and trades, and have less leverage, because they could theoretically lose them for nothing." Tha only applies to one team overpays a player by a lot, there is no competitors. Bosh's case is different. A lot teams will pay him max, there are plenty competitors. That means Toronto won't lose him for nothying.
To get to the $20 million mark, the Rockets would have to give up Ariza, Battier, Hill or Anderson, and Jeffries.
Ok, so it's the opionion. But the fact is Hill is a bench player who couldn't crack rookie 1st or 2nd round team. If you check ESPN(if you belive what they said like you do), his rookie ranking is nowhere near lottery. Not when you know there are more than 10 teams willing to make offers. History told us when a player is overpaid by a lot and nobody else would do that, you lose your leverage, but when a player will get max contract everywhere, you don't lose your leverage. It's as simple as that.
