Actually a lot of Raptor fans on other forums aren't opposed to this type of deal or at least some form of it at all as long as it brings them back multiple first round picks...take for example one of several discussions/threads that Toronto fans have been having on this topic over at RealGm.... Here is a link to that 28 page thread: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1007960&start=0
A lot different opinions there, just like here . Some people wanted pickes, some people wanted Scola + Martin + Brooks.
They are in the lottery year after year. Blazers, Thunder? Both are built on lottery picks. Getting back 4 lottery prospects is their best chance of building towards a championship. What team can offer the Raptors a player in exchange for Bosh that will make them instant championship contenders? None. Any other kind of vet players and they're not striving to win it all just striving to go from bad to mediocre. A medoicre team that might still not make the playoffs.
True..... but a lot of those opinions there are not opposed to the "young players and picks package" at all and it certainly isn't as unrealistic as you have made it out to be here.
Seems we're in a good situation to pick up Bosh by leveraging a Stoudamire acquisition. Rockets already tried to acquire him at the trade deadline but maybe that was a signal to Toronto not to demand too much as we could make a push for Stoudamire if they demand too much... Can't wait for the draft!
Those guys basiclly added Hedo's bad contract in it. Well, if Morey can pull a CBud + Hill + 2 pikcs for Bosh, I'll call him God. I still think it's very unrealistic. I'll expect it will take a lot more than that to land Bosh, and I'll not be dissappointed if that's what happened. But of course the less Morey has to give up, the better.
Morey can only take back 25% in salary, he needs to give up Battier or Jeffries also. He will probably give $3 mil in cash also.
We didn't get Jordan Hill because of McGrady's contract.. we got him because we took on the contract of Jared Jeffries, a negative value. You really just don't get it, do you? Kmart, at the time, was considered one of the best young PFs in the game. Obviously that turned out not to be the case, but it doesn't really matter. The point is, it's a SnT deal. You don't get as much value back in a SnT deal than you otherwise would for a regular trade. You have 0 examples of a big return in a SnT deal -- I have multiple examples showing that there are not big returns. (Kmart, Grant Hill, Rashard Lewis, etc.). Maybe it's just the homer in me that likes to have facts and examples to back up my assertions. Who cares? Again, you're failing to grasp the concept of a SnT deal. If you can show me one example, just one, of a SnT deal where a team got a significant return for the guy they traded, I'll see your point. Until then, you're just trying to equate a SnT deal with regular trade value.. and that's just dumb. Ok, even if max salaries go down next year. Bosh signs a max deal this year with Miami for four years, then re-ups with them for less than he would have gotten if he signed a 5 year deal in a SnT. That's still not a "loss of $30M". Like I said, the "leaving $30M" on the table argument is a fallacy because in reality he would be "losing" significantly less. I certainly agree that he would prefer to sign a max deal / max years instead of going the four year - extension route. But that doesn't mean he won't. If the Raptors refuse to trade you to a team you want to go with, what can you do? If it's Houston, nothing. If it's Miami.. sign with them for the max. The Raptors have only so much leverage.
i hope like hell that we dont get rid of ariza. him and bosh can actually compliment each other's game.
This is like debating with a brick wall. Plenty of franchise players have been signed and traded, yet you can't provide a single example of one fetching the value you think Bosh will command. McGrady was not a sign and trade. Shaq was not a sign and trade. Bosh will be a sign and trade, and will be a free agent. One example of an actual sign and trade in which the team dealing the player got significantly more than Hill, Budinger and two first round picks from NY. That's all I'm asking you for.
I DO BELIEVE IN THE ROOKIE RANKINGS. The thing is, the rookie rankings measure how the players are playing RIGHT NOW. A report that Toronto likes Hill is relevant because how much they like Hill is directly related to a potential trade. A report on how well rookies played in 2009-10 is NOT relevant because it does not use the same criteria that teams are using to measure value.
How about this for a deal... how about you go to these other NBA forums and tell me if you can find anyone who expects a team signing and trading a player to get fair value. You still don't seem to get that. I don't think Hill, Budinger and two firsts are worth Bosh. None of us do. But Toronto is NOT GOING TO GET WHAT HE'S FULLY WORTH given the circumstances of a sign and trade. That's the issue. It simply doesn't work that way, and you haven't provided a single bit of evidence to the contrary. One example. That's all we're asking for.
Funny you bring that up because Lowry's production actually drops when he plays with Ming. Something about the paint being cluttered forcing him to rely on his suspect jumper, I gather? Lowry's good but Brooks is the star on this team. Lowry should be gone before you even think of moving Brooks.
We're talking about a trade, where that kind of assets would be unrealistic, but we're talking about a sign-and-trade, where the power lies on the player being signed. Its in Bosh's best interest to get as little as possible for him, what's the point of going to a gutted team? The power is mostly on Bosh's side because he can say no anytime and leave with Toronto getting nothing. In this kind of scenario we can get Bosh for 30 cents on a dollar, because two of the three parties involved (and coincidentally the one the most leverage) want to shaft the third party as much as possible. We're also talking about Morey here, dude should have been an illegal shark, he would have everyone paying 1000% interest for the next 20 years.
There is no way Morey would stop both of our defensive stoppers. I think it would be Martin Jeffires Hill Picks and fillers. Cause think about it. The Raptors don't have a 2 guard. And when he was here and only did good against bad teams and disappeared against good teams. I wouldn't mind throwing him in there.
Kevin Martin is definetly here to stay! Morey will only trade him if there is an upgrade at the SG position like Wade or Johnson.
Kevin Martin doesn't deserve to be on the Rockets. He isn't a sharp shooter. In fact he's one of the DULLESt shooters I've ever seen. His shot is like some hip launched SIDE-ICKY knuckleball. Wouldn't you agree?
