Ok...but that was never the argument, as far as I know. Superstar brought up "prime" Shaq, not now Shaq.
Yes, but you claimed that no way was Shaq > Dream. Lots of people disagree (some of them are so called experts).
Your argument assumes that he go those 17+ attempts because he either demanded the ball or his teammates were smart enough to get him the ball. Maybe he got all those shot attempts because he was playing against a weaker defense. Or maybe he felt fresher and more energetic in those particular games so he was able to get himself more touches. And, yeah, in those kind of games I would expect him to shoot a higher percentage. What I've been saying is that Yao can't get enough shot attempts on a regular basis because he doesn't have the strength/stamina to fight for position game to game. Shaq could get to his spot and get the ball where he wanted it because he had great size, strength, and very good hands. The other team was totally at his mercy. It's much easier for teams to keep Yao off his spots and neutralize him.
That Dream went through legit bigs, while Shaq was guarded by Vlade and (whomever those Nets and other trash centers were). No to mention the blocks, the steals,rebounds, footwork, and oldschool team play.... Shaq may have been the most dominant, but Bill, Dream, and Wilt are the greatest C's to ever play this game. Can you imagine if Dream was paired with a Kobe/Dwade in his earlier years? OMG.....10 rings.....
You brought up one article, so I'd say that's evidence that lots of person disagree, allegedly an expert. To be fair it's a controversial topic. In my personal ranking system I've got Shaq at #5 behind, in no particular order, Kareem, Wilt, Russell and Hakeem.
One may also refer to Elliot Kalb's ("Mr. Stats") "Who's Better, Who's Best", where he actually ranked Shaquille O'neal number 1. I wouldn't go that far, but it underscores the fact that Shaq's place in NBA history is held in very high regard by knowledgeable NBA guys.
Ah, circular reasoning. Yao shot more times in those games because he felt fresher, and because he felt fresher he converted at a higher percentage. Except that I wasn't arguing that he was converting at a higher percentage. I just argued that there wasn't a drop off compared to his normal production. After a quick glance it doesn't look to me like his fg% drops off for games where he takes more shots. And that's precisely what I was arguing, that if Yao took more shots he'd score more points. In terms of stamina it doesn't look to me like here's any drop off when Yao shoots more. In terms of why he doesn't shoot more you seem to be arguing that it's because he doesn't have the endurance to wrestle for his position from game to game. I pointed out in my last post that that's becoming increasingly irrelevant when Yao can pass out and repost or rely on trickery to get the ball. And if stamina is such an issue then why isn't your first hypothesis right, that Yao's efficiency would decrease as he took more shots and presumably worked harder?
I'd say number five, which is where I've got him, is pretty good. I've just got Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem and Russell in front of him.
You can see the tally below. 13 out of 20 experts ranked Shaq ahead of Hakeem, all-time. It wasn't just one person.
Shaq benefitted from a disproportionate number of "experts" voting him as #1 or #2 of all time, which is clearly nonsensical.
It's not circular reasoning to say that a player's shot attempts is dependent on the quality of defense he faces, or how energetic he happens to feel on a particular night. Your argument assumes that Yao's shot attempts are independent of those things. So, you think Yao can get close to 20 shots against any team, on any particular night, as long as he demands the ball and his teammates oblige. And somehow the sample you site is to be considered a representative sample of "any opponent, on a any particular night". That's flat out not true. Yes, Yao has to rely on reposting and "trickery" to get the ball in good scoring position. Sometimes, that's not easy. Shaq could just get to his spot, seal his man, and that's it. Game over. For Yao, the Rockets as a team need to work much harder. And the better the opponent's defense, the harder the team as a whole needs to work. It's not just a matter of Yao demanding the ball, and his players passing it to him. It often requires lots of players working in concert, moving the ball side to side, and eating up shot clock to get Yao the ball. It's a big challenge, and it's something we've been struggling to get working smoothly for 1 1/2 seasons.
I'll repeat: 13 out of 20 said he was better than Hakeem. And suggesting that Shaq is the greatest or second greatest center all time is not "clearly nonsensical". You can disagree with it, but that is a common, fairly mainstream opinion.
No, my argument is that there's no drop off in Yao's efficiency when he takes more shots. Guess what, the available evidence supports that. I would say that's a pretty good counter argument to the hypothesis that Yao will get more tired as he takes more shots and his productivity will fall off. As to why he takes more shots in some games than in others I have no idea. You're the one coming up with untestable hypotheses for that question. As for getting Yao the ball the Rockets' play, before T-Mac and Artest got back, suggests to me that an offense retooled around Yao is a good thing.
It's not mainstream according to the article you cited where the majority of the guys polled ranked him around 4/5. Even the composite score has him at #4. Which is exactly how I'd rank him. There's no question that Kareem, Wilt and Russell occupy the top three slots. The only real debate is who gets #4 and #5. All of the "experts" who voted for Shaq as #1 or #2 deserve a rap on the knuckles as far as I'm concerned.
Regardless, it is insane to say that Hakeem >>>>>>> Shaq which is what opened this whole can of worms to begin with.
hey kid given how much you worship yao's untouchable greatness i sincerely suggest you go to this site: http://yao mingmania .com its pretty dead over there they need someone relentless like you
