absolutely i can. if they want democracy want to cooperate with the US in bringing about democracy they should have civilized morality to go along side of it. and torture is the antithesis of that. at first i enjoyed seeing the radical right justify torture while claiming to be divine and having god on their side. now its just getting sickening.
dont lump all christians in together. he doesnt practice my brand of christianity and i dont think were even reading the same bible.
I have no morals when it comes to these monsters, because they don't deserve them. They openly seek out and assasinate Christians and Jews. When was the last time you heard of a Christian or Jewish suicide bomber that went out and blew himself up in a building full of Muslims? That's right, it doesn't happen. When it comes to war your everyday morals go out the window because they have no place on the battlefield. So because I think murder is wrong then killing on the battlefield is wrong? Uhh, no... it doesn't work that way. When you are at war you work with a different set of rules, not the ones you use in your everyday lives. These radicals bring the battlefield to INNOCENT PEOPLE and should be stopped at all costs, it is as easy as that. They kill men, women, children, the elderly, the innocent, they don't care as long as they make their point. How can ever expect to defeat an enemy that isn't afraid of what might be done to them? We capture them and give them everything they could ever desire, including lawyers from the ACLU.
Are WE doing that in the name of Christianity? No, so it is an irrelevant argument. THAT is the enemy we are facing NOW and we are the ones getting a black eye if we don't give our prisoners ample prayer time and proper meals.
And what's a little rape here and there? After all they're monsters. It's okay to rape monsters. You're a sick ****.
so i take it your an old testament man? vengeful god, fire n' brimstone, eye for an eye and all that stuff. there was the jesus guy who came along a couple thousand years ago and changed things. you should check him out. actually, beheadings and bombings would be murder, but thats just semantics i suppose. ill go with you that most all murder is torture by nature though. torture would be stuff like waterboarding (dunking people underwater till they pass out), hanging people with their arms tied behind their backs till they pass out, sticking objects up dudes poopers, ect. i have no problem torturing actual murders and criminals, but not everyone who is being subjected to torture is guilty.
I will try my best to address some of what is posted above. There is litte evidence to suggest that if someone has information that will save lives torture is the most effective way to get it. There is a lot of evidence to suggest imformation gained from torture isn't reliable. Furthermore, torture by the U.S. has gone beyond naked pyramids, and desecrating the Koran. It has gone to murder, and rape. That is certainly equivalent to how our prisoners are treated. I would hardly hold up Al Qaedas treatment of prisoners as a model we should follow. But for the record there are plenty of instances of prisoners both held by us and our opponents being treated well, so torture isn't the norm. Let me also add that these prisoners you are talking about may not even be guilty at all. They have had no trial and no chance to defend themselves. In WWII there were some instances of torture by the U.S. but it was minimal, and definitely not legally sanctioned. The people in our administration who advocate torture are those that haven't been in the wars. Powell, McCain, Warner, and others that have served and/or fought and even been victims of torture themselves are dead set against torture. I will address Christianity last. Jesus, who was also known as the prince of the peace, said that in the old testament the law was an eye for an eye, but that he was saying to turn the other cheek. Jesus never suggested starting an elective pre-emptive war based on misleading and questionable intel. In fact Jews of Jesus line of thinking were being tortured, killed, imprisoned and wiped out during Jesus time. Despite this Jesus did not once suggest that war was the answer. If, as Christians, we are to follow Jesus example and ask ourselves what would Jesus do, I can't imagine anyone saying that we should torture our prisoners. If you believe that Christ, The Prince of Peace, would advocate starting a war with a nation that wasn't a threat, and then torturing people, and freezing them to death, I can only suggest you read the bible again, and pray a lot.
I am not a "turn your cheek" kinda guy when at war, sorry. Jesus coming didn't change all of the teachings of God, if he did then I and other Christians would never be part of any war. You're right, the Bible does say eye for an eye, it also says to defend yourself if you are persecuted and stand up for your beliefs, this includes war. I'm not saying that "oh, they're a prisoner let's torture them" because that is a ridiculous argument to begin with. I do however think that when you take that option completely out of the commander's hands then you are severely hampering your war efforts. I'm also not saying "skin them alive" or anything ridiculous, but there are means of torture that are successful without causing extreme harm or death. My views on this would be VERY different if we were fighting a conventional war with an enemy that would show themselves and adhere to the Geneva convention, but we aren't fighting that… we are fighting monsters. Monsters that will kill anything and everything including women and children who have beliefs different then their own. So, you're okay with them beheading our prisoners on TV (you don't exactly see Muslim leaders bashing their tactics) but you aren't okay with us using non-deadly tactics?
Jesus did not say "Turn the other cheek, unless you are at war." In fact not turning it when times are hard kind of erases the meaning of the phrase all together. Jesus said to love your enemy. He pointed out that it isn't hard to love your friends, because everyone does that. What Jesus said, and his message was that you should love your enemy. Aside from that, not wanting to torture in no way indicates a person is ok with the enemy beheading prisoners. A person can be against it, and in fact be so against it that he doesn't believe in practicing similar tactics.
You've won a convert. I think you're right. They cut off our heads so we rape them in the butt. Makes sense. God bless America. Jesus would be so into this. Screw the ACLU. Butt rape rocks.
I portray/enact my morals on others, and when it comes to these monsters I wouldn't think twice about killing one if I had to and I think killing is wrong. If you think that you can take the same approach at war as you can in life then you have obviously have never served in a war, or known people who have. All the rules of civilized life go out the window when you are fighting for life or death, it is sad but true. War isn't pretty and never has been, and if you think a utopian approach can ever win a war then you lost it long before it even started. So because Christ tought "peace" we should lay down our weapons and let the enemy win? Uhh, no. In a previous post I addressed this issue, I love how you add the "politics" to a religious debate like "does Jesus say a preemptive... blah blah blah is right?" If you want to discuss it on a religious basis, check your political views at the door. These radicals target innocent people, including women and children and unarmed civilians and Christians and Jews and must be stopped. If you don't agree with that you have that freedom, but if we didn't pick up arms you wouldn't have it to begin with.
Tell it, Svpernaut! Christ obviously meant except for monsters, whom we should rape. Think about it. The Bible doesn't let you have any gay sex at all with people. But because Jesus loved us so, he gave us monsters to rape.
Svpernaut, do you ever think that by doing what you said to other human beings, you essentially become a monster yourself?
