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More Torch Relay Embarrassment: North Koreans' turn

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Apr 27, 2008.

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  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    It's a nazi tradition whether you like it or not, and it should be abolished, and should have been abolished, starting in 1952. China's making of this nazi tradition into a grand spectacle on a scale previously unseen isn't doing it any favors. End of story.
     
    #41 SamFisher, Apr 28, 2008
  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    China has never hosted. I remember South Koreans making their hosting a grand spectacle.

    Invoking Nazis to bait Chinese members is a new low even for this forum. It furthers suspicions of a double standard that mainland Chinese already harbor. It serves ZERO PURPOSE in a debate.

    I've never thought about reporting posts before, but keep this up and we'll let Clutch decide.
     
    #42 Invisible Fan, Apr 28, 2008
  3. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    I have said this before, people are against China/Chinese for a host of different reasons, most of which they will never say in public. So whenever there is a reason to rally against China, they all come together. If China become democratic tomorrow, most of these people will find another reason to rally against China still.

    I bet if China have a totally free election tomorrow, the current party will get elected 100%, does that make the whole process ans system legit because it is voted in by the people even though nothing have really changed?
     
    #43 pirc1, Apr 28, 2008
  4. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Other than Nazi started it, I dont see anything wrong with it. Another poster said it actually was a good source of income for many people.

    Let's not kill the argument by saying because Nazi did it ...
     
    #44 YallMean, Apr 28, 2008
  5. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Obviously if for some miracle reason the Nazis found a cure for cancer through human experiments in the 1940s, today no one should be using it (theoretically speaking of course).
     
    #45 pirc1, Apr 28, 2008
  6. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Those Nazi V-2 rockets should have been abolished and never expanded to morden day missles for self-defense.
     
    #46 YallMean, Apr 28, 2008
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    It's not because the Nazis did it. It's because the Nazis invented it, as a political theater for the third reich.

    I would wager you ten milliion, kazillion, bajillionn dollars that if the Olympic Torch Relay had been invented by the Japanese as a celebration of Japanese Imperial Greatness - we would not be having this conversation, and even the thought of China conducting one would be unmentionable. You guys like to talk about double standards - well here's one.

    It is a stupid tradition, with shameful origins, that needs to go. Who cares if some people make money off it - First off, they make chump change at best, and that's a ridiculous argument because the entire thing wastes tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. The olympic torch has its own Airbus. They aren't selling enough pins to pay for that. You may as well pay them 10,000 dollars to take a raft packed with 10 million dollars and sink it in teh South China sea - it would be less econmically wasteful.
     
    #47 SamFisher, Apr 28, 2008
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    See - this is where you're going off the tracks. Chinese invented rockets first of all;

    second of all, rockets weren't an artifical creation solely to justify nazi greatness - Rockets are designed to propel things.

    A torch relay has no such practical purpose. Rather, ,the entire thing is a conceit of national socialist theater. That's undeniable.

    Once again - this analogy sucks terribly. nobody says "well anything the nazis did is bad!". Nor am I saying "all relays are bad" or "all torches are bad!" The argument is far more limited. If you can't see it by now then there's no point in explaining it to you.
     
    #48 SamFisher, Apr 28, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  9. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    I wish we could have a poll on this for the entire world to vote. When I was a kid, when the torch passed through my town, I thought that was the most beautiful thing as if I were a part of Olympics. Well, maybe not to you, because it is so political to you. How can some casual runners carrying a torch and runninng around be so political? Are we not confident of what we stand for and have to vent through sporting event?


    It's a moot to say if the Japanese invented it, because they didnt it. One thing I know though, a lot of Japanese invented Kanji idioms permeated back to China during the war times, and are still used in China. Chinese people love Japanese electronics. Of course there are oxy-morons in China that hate everything Japan does, but those r****ds are everywhere in any corner of the world.
     
    #49 YallMean, Apr 28, 2008
  10. michecon

    michecon Member

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    I'm eagerly awaiting Sam protest this "shameful tradition" in another 4 years.
     
    #50 michecon, Apr 28, 2008
  11. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Yeah, Chinese invented paper too, without which WMD's blue prints wouldnt be drawn. Chines invented gun powders, what a terrible idea.
     
    #51 YallMean, Apr 28, 2008
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    How can a beautifully choreographed and cinematogrphic masterpiece like Olympia and Triumph of the Will be considered tainted? Because of what they represent and why they were made. That is also what the torch relay represents.


    I'm not saying if Japan invented something it would be considered bad, I'm saying what if Japan invented something SOLELY for the purpose of boasting Japanese racial superiority, like the Torch relay was? You and I both know the answer to that question.
     
    #52 SamFisher, Apr 28, 2008
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Hopefully this Nazi propaganda piece is toned down or put out of its misery by then. You really think I am not sincere? The torch relay is a nazi invention that shouldn't have been revived and never been repeated, by China or anybody, before or since. Had i known this two years ago I would have said the same thing. End of story.
     
    #53 SamFisher, Apr 28, 2008
  14. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Don't recall you protesting the torch relay four years ago? Did anyone remember when Sammy was so against torch relay when the Olympic was hosted in Greece?
     
    #54 pirc1, Apr 28, 2008
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    did you even read the post you quoted? I don't think you did.

    Had i known this two years ago I would have said the same thing. End of story.
     
    #55 SamFisher, Apr 28, 2008
  16. michecon

    michecon Member

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    Nicely hedged, LOL. Who's to be the judge? You, right? I know, I know...
    Nowadays you can't really argue without mentioning Nazi in every post. I'll chalk that up to therapy need.
     
    #56 michecon, Apr 28, 2008
  17. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    That's your perception. You are mixing the relay with politics and wasnt that the very thing the ancient Olympics tried to avoid. If the IOC voted to have Libya or North Korea to host the next Olympics, I would be still supporting the relay without looking at it through political lens. I would also be happy to bring those rouge nations via sporting events to the World family to show them what is like to be a reponsible nation and play by the rules.


    Back to the Japan's comparision. I dont know. If the relay tradition had been invented by the Japanese imperial Army during the war, but were accepted by the rest of world as a good tradition that embodies the sprit of Olympics, I couldnt tell you how Chinese would precevie it. But dont make it sound like all Chinese are fanatic extremeist, because there are rationale sentiments within the country that the majority argree with.
     
    #57 YallMean, Apr 28, 2008
  18. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    The overuse of comparing the torch relays to Nazis has been reported to the moderators.

    I think you've made your point that the torch relay was invented by Nazis having repeated that about 100 times.

    Most don't object to you not liking the torch relay (though the repeated re-stating of the fact is getting tired), but you tenuously link people running the torch relay to Nazis and some, reasonably, find that offensive.
     
    #58 Jeff, Apr 28, 2008
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Well first off there was no torch relay in the early Olympics which is what makes it a distinctly nazi-invented convention. Second there were all sorts of poltical wranglings in the ancient Olympics, replete with boycotts and suspensions of Greek city states like Sparta and massive protests and disruptions (when one village that traditionally hosted the games sent an army to disrupt the games and kill the competitors when the games went to a idfferent village).

    There are rational elements - but my perception is that pretty much anything related to Japanese WWII imperialism is considered radioactive in China these days, for good reason.
     
    #59 SamFisher, Apr 28, 2008
  20. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    No therapy needed. It's a logic fallacy.


    Association Fallacy
     
    #60 YallMean, Apr 28, 2008
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