More Than 500,000 Rally in L.A. for Immigrants' Rights

I'm coming late to this thread so I apologize if some of these points have been made.

The way I see it every country has a right to control their borders and it is important to know who is coming and going into this country. That said though illegal immigration is a necessary component of this country to dampen inflation and maintain the competitiveness of the US labor force. IMO the solution should be a vastly expanded guest worker program along with tighter border enforcement to meet both the need for immigrant labor while addressing border security.

The idea that we're going to punish churches and hospitals for aiding illegals to me though is patently wrong on several levels. For one it violates the separation of church and state by placing a law enforcement burden on how a church ministers. It also might force doctors to violate the Hippocratic Oath by making it a crime for them to render aid. I find it highly hypocritical of politicians who often complain about government keeping them from practicing their religion looking to legislate who churches can aid.

Finally all of these ideas though are only half measures that don't address the root causes of why there is so much illegal immigration. As long as there are major wealth disparities between countries there will be a strong desire for the labor of poorer countries to take the jobs of the wealthier ones. Until global economies can start approaching something like equality there will always be immigration both legal and illegal. The only way we can get to that is to liberalize trade, including outsourcing, which is the only practical self sustaining way of transferring capital to poorer countries and building there economies.

 

Support outsourcing???? Are you insane???? You obviously are not in IT because that is probably the worst thing that has happened to our market ever.

 

How is an employer supposed to verify someone's SS number? There are people all over the country using fake SS numbers.

 

They're not mooching off of the system but adding a lot to the economy. For instance in my own field architecture I know that contractors, particularly residential contractors, often use illegal immigrants. Not only are illegals willing to work at much lower costs they provide a ready labor pool that can adjust to the fluctuations of the volatile construction market. If contractors didn't use illegals its very likely that many projects couldn't be built in a timely manner or at costs. If my clients can't get projects built within their budgets or timetables then they won't do them and I don't get paid even though I'm an American citizen.

So far from mooching off of the system illegal immigrants working construction help keep Americans like me employed. Further by lowering costs on things like food allows us to spend and invest those savings on other things in the economy creating more jobs for Americans. For instance if you were paying $10 a pound on strawberries instead of $2 or $5 for a loaf of bread instead of $1 the extra dollars that you've spent on food aren't going to other goods and services in industries where American citizens are employed.

 

How many Americans do you hear talking about what they can do for the country? Americans tend to be pretty much focused on our own self-interests as well (lower taxes while racking up debt for grandkids to pay, etc).

Well, the whole point is that an illegal with a fake SS is hiding the fact that they are illegal to get a non-cash job. You (and the employer) likely would never know they are illegal immigrants, as they will blend right in with a legal immigrant as far as anyone knows. The ones with a fake SS aren't working the day labor type jobs.

 

How does artificially inflating prices help US industries in the long term? By stopping the natural market flow of capital you just exacerbate the problems of worldwide economic disparities that create problems with illegal immigration and outsourcing.

Think long term. The global market creates capital in the long run. Its not a zero sum game.

 

My son applied for a job and in the hiring process they did a background check. On some report it was noted that he had a duplicate SS number (they found two other instances where it was supposedly used - both by folks with Latino surnames) and he was required to show proof that the SS number belonged to him before they would give him the job.

To investigate this further, we got his lifetime earnings history from SS to ensure that no one had actually used his number and it was probably a clerical error. From all we could tell it was a clerical error on some part and there were no bogus earnings associated with his SS number.

 

I know very little about economics but common sense would tell me that if someone can get labor for under minimum wage then that isn't helping the people that are legal and will work for minimum wage.

If strawberries jumped to $10 a pound and bread to $5 a loaf, I'd grow them myself and make my own bread. It isn't that damn difficult. I do not see how employing illegals is going to drop the price of strawberries and bread.

I also do not understand how we can condemn sweat shops in Asia but employ illegals in our own country for less money than the government has stated is the minimum wage and say that is ok since it is good for our economy. How is it not good overseas but perfectly ok here? How is it any different?

If they want to work in America, apply like everyone else. It is screwing the decent people that are trying to do things right.

 

how does it maintain competitiveness
Are you against Minimum wage laws?
just a question . . cause because Illegals work for less than market value
the undercut an american . . why hire an american at 6/hr when you can
hire and illegal for 3/hr . . using your ideal
I can see the salaries being driven back to Depression era wages if they
could get away with it

Aiding and Abetting criminals is a *crime*
Illegal means it is a CRIME
So
I do not beleive Churches or doctors should aid CRIMINALS
Do you?

I'm no republican but this sounds like
Take money and opportunity from americans
and give it to the rest of the world

Am I mistaken in my interpretation?

Rocket River

 

Agreed

 

Hospitals and Churches are there to assist everyone - they are non-judgemental. If a criminal gets shot and goes to the hospital, you think they should just ignore him and let him die?

How about if they have an infectious disease? Should the hospital turn him away so he can go infect other people?

Let's say someone comes in with a critical wound needing immediate care - should the hospital be forced to do a time consuming background check, possibly allowing a legal citizen to die? Under the House bill, the hospital would have to, or be at risk of getting in trouble with the law.

 

Myth.

 

think this has to do with why the Fed raised interest rates AGAIN yesterday?

 

More demonstrations:





And we are supposed to treat these guys the same as American citizens?

 

...

These two quotes make no sense together. If you accept that these companies are paying people less than they would otherwise, then the logical conclusion is that it reduces the cost of the goods you purchase from them.

For some industries, more aggressively controlling labor will simply raise your costs subsantially - construction and many agricultural products, for example. If the producer has to pay more for labor, that cost is simply going to be passed on to the end consumer.

For other industries that are not location-dependent, it will be simply cheaper to go overseas or relocate to Mexico. So then, you're encouraging more outsourcing. Rather than getting the jobs transferred to Americans as you had hoped, you will just be transferred middle and upper management jobs that were American overseas as well.

Minimum wage laws make sense in principle and they work in many industries. But they also have many consequences and would completely wreck a number of industries. The functional-compromise that has been in place for a while, though not at all ideal, is allowing illegal labor to do some of that work. You change that and you'll put a pretty significant shock through the economy. You'll fix some problems and introduce a much larger set of new problems.

 

Wow. You certainly changed my mind!

 

i agree entirely. i don't think people have the first clue of the economic impact of cheap labor..particularly in Texas.

 

in the US, it's not illegal to burn the flag. demonstration is just that...demonstration.