I am very happy with the win, but there is nothing wrong with a thoughtful analysis of the game after we win to see what we can further improve on (in this case passing to open man). Steve and Cat was great, but if they can improve that aspect of the game as discussed, it would be even better -G'day-
From what I saw(first half anyway), they were triple teaming Yao before he even got the ball. Every time we tried to force it in....TO. Why is everyone b****ing? Too bad we don't have many pure shooters.
DarrinLane, Yao only had 1 to, I think the entire Rox team had low TO with the exception of I think EG who had 3 or 4.
It is amazing that Sportscenter, with their multiple camera views, slow motion, and time to look over game film can see three mistakes that Cat and Steve did not see while on the court, with other players defending them, in a split second, etc. Wow. So, if Moochie got 9 assists two games ago and Steve got 9 assists last night, doesn't that mean Yao should be getting 9 assists?
So let me get this straight... Francis had 9 assists and Mobley had 3 (his is a shooting gaurd y'know) and they were being selfish last night? People complaining is the norm around here lately, it is just what this board has become (which is prob' why my visits here have become less and less), but on a night when Francis has [/b] NINE [/b] assists you folks still complain that he is selfish. Lets just be real here folks, many of you don't like Steve Francis, never have and you attempt to hide your dislike under the crys for team ball and more passing. When what you really mean is more passes to Yao, only Yao, and Yao again. That is the only way that you are going to be happy. Guess what folks? 1. Passing into a double or triple team is not team ball. Its low BBIQ 2. Not taking advantage of what the defense gives you or a mismatch (y'know kinda like how Yao elects to pass when he is being single covered by a 6'8'' or smaller player) is again low BBIQ (damn don't you just hate that term now) 2. Wanting your favorite player to get the ball when he is being doubled or triple teamed is selfish (kinda like you think our gaurds are) 3. For a 7'5'' center to only get 6 rebounds in 40min is unacceptable, I don't care what the reason is 4. Dishing out 9 assists is team ball and those where only the passes where his team mates actually hit their shots 5 Coming up with a couple of big steals\blocks in crunch time shows leadership, because that's what SF is, the leader of this team There is so much negativity out here in regards to all players on this team aside from Yao that it sickens me. One player does not a team make. If you truly are Rockets fans and care, give credit where credit is due. On a night when the big fella was taken out of the equation our backcourt stepped up and still kept the rest of the team involved. That is a fact and to say otherwise would be just blind Yaoism.
Bingo! This is not part of some nation-wide anti-Houston conspiracy...as weird as it sounds to have to even say that. this is what is being said everywhere, by every reporter/coach/player/fan who watches the Rockets...I saw the game last night from the Boston telecast, and they were freaking out about it...They are the biggest homer announcers I have ever heard, and they couldn't believe it...here is an exchange they had.. CC: They aren't even looking at Yao...You don't go to a guy every time down, but he's not even getting a peek! This is amazing.. PB: Yeah, you hear about this, but to actually see it...he's calling for the ball, and they're not even listening. CC: Well, it's great for us...I hope they keep it up...(laugh)...
When you win wrong, it reinforces wrong behavior, leading to more long-term losing... Like if you tell your child that not doing their homework till they get to class and scribble it down just before they hand it in...and they do it anyways, and manage an 'A'...it makes them think that that is the way to do it...and it ends up not working a lot more than it works, but they keep remembering the time they got an 'A'..or they pull off another every now and then, and it perpetuates itself. When we ignore our low post, and rely almost exclusively on the guards jacking it up, we are a mediocre team...Mediocre teams will win some, lose some, and usually end up around .500...But the problem is that 1/2 of the time we'll win playing that iso brand of ball, and that makes the guys practicisng it think it's the way to go...and the other 1/2 that we lose playing that styel will seem to them to reinforce the fact that A) Their teammates didn't do enough...so we gotta take more on ourselves. or B) We didn't have agreat game, and we lost, so this team needs me to play great to win, hence I have to take more on myself...It's a long-term sinkhole, and it gets harder to correct with every game played the wrong way, especially when we win. Yes, the other team gace Yao a lot of attention and wanted us to rely on our guards jacking it up...ever ask yourslef why? Should we have never passed it into Hakeem when teams focused on him? Winning basketball is inside out, especially when you have one of the few inside threats in the game...So, yes, if other coaches know that our guards will jack it up given any excuse, and they know that that is a long term losing strategy, they just might encourage them to do that, you think?
Criticizing after a good victory like this is like sleeping with Jennifer Lopez and then complaining that she didn't cook breakfast.
1) I disagree...they weren't double teaming Yao when he didn't have the ball, only when we passed into him, or it looked like our incredibly slow and obvious entry passes were about to occur...Shooting out of a double team isn't team ball, but passing into it, therefore initiating the offense buy automatically getting a man open is team ball, and it;s the brand of team ball that won us a championship or two...and the one thing Yao does better than Hakeem is see the floor and distribute the ball. 2) There are two ways of looking at that...Defenses are designed to get a team to take it's worst options...if you take those options you are playing into their hands....Like Boston did last night when we went zone..we hoped that that would make them jack it up from the outside, giving us a chance to get back into the game, they did, and we got back in... 3) What's your point? Because he didn't get enough rebounds/inch for your liking, that somehow justifies jacking it up from the outside or ignoring him on offense? 4) 9 assists? Check out Starbury's numbers when he was being called one of the most selfish players in the game...Numbers are usefull, but not gospel, and if you dominate the ball for almost the entire game, as our guards did last night, you sure as hell better have some assists, or we'll score 60 or 70 as a team...Anyone who keeps the ball for the vast majority ot the clock during the vast majority of the possessions is going to get assists if they're even half trying... 5) Being a leader and being a clutch player are not the same thing...nor is being a clutch player, or being a leader, or being a floor general the same thing. Dominique Wilkins did incredible things in crunch time...Vince Carter has won countless games with last second heroics...Shaq was the clear leader on a team where Kobe and Horry took most of the last shots...were Horry and Kobe the real leaders? I don't see the connection..Was Steve clutch? Yeah...but he might also have been the reason he needed to be...
Oh. My. God. I really can't believe some of this stuff that I'm reading here. Did anyone else realize that the Celtics were double-teaming Yao...without the ball? Not only does that make for a difficult entry pass, but it also leaves you an advantage somewhere else on the court. The Celtics were determined not to let us beat them inside. They were basically daring us to beat them from the perimeter (and who could blame them). We did just that...beat them from the perimeter. If anything, us performing like that will just make things easier for Yao. If we get consistent perimeter play like that, then teams won't be able to overplay Yao as much. Its a good thing, people. A GOOD THING.
You know what, I don't see Yao complaining like some of the people on this board. He was smiling and happy to get a win because he is a team player. A team player knows that sometimes he will get a lot of shots, and sometimes the defense dictates that he has to sacrifice and be the decoy so others can get easy opportunities. Throwing into a double team is not smart. High BBIQ dictate that the open man gets the ball so if one player is double teamed, you swing the ball to the open man. Also, remember that the whole reason that reason the rules were changed was to limit player backing the ball in and scoring. People thought it was slowing down the game. Boston was in a zone. It's very hard to throw into the post on a zone. That's why smart team use a high post to get their center the ball, something we didn't do at all last night, blame that on Rudy. Maybe we should trade all of our talented players for scrubs and just let them pass the ball to Yao over and over again to make people happy. We won't win many games but at least the people here would be happy. I'm sure the people in LA aren't posting "Well, I know Kobe is on one of the greatest runs in NBA history, but he should quite shooting and making all those shots and just dump the ball back into Shaq." No, they're happy that they are winning ball games. Also, just a side note, when teams would harass Hakeem like this, his response was just shoot it, I'll go get the ball and dunk it back in if you miss. Even if you hardly ever were able to get the ball into him, he was so dominate that he would still get twenty points off putbacks and garbage points. I would like to see Yao develop a little more of that aggressive mentality. But he's young and he still has a lot of maturing to do, and I'm sure we'll see that further along in his career.
Boy, it sure does seem like some of you just wait to jump all over Steve and Cuttino to make the tinest mistake, just so you can blast them, but Yao can never do wrong. One game and they've gone away from trying to get Yao the ball completely. Sure, journalists and sportscasters can point out Yao not getting the ball, but they just see highlights of Yao, they usually don't see him play day in, day out; they don't see the shortcomings as well. They don't know how long Yao takes to shoot when he gets the ball. They don't get to see his tendency to put the ball on the floor just about every time he gets it. They don't see his poor jumping ability. The relatively poor lateral movement. His trouble with faster-moving passes. The lack of stamina. You can't just force the ball to Yao no matter what. You take what the defense gives you. The defense was NOT giving up easy position and a clear pass for Yao. So the Rockets adjust their game plan. People have berated Rudy T for his coaching ability, but when they change their plan and pull out a road win against an above .500 team, the complaints still gush. The Celtics played us like this both times, and we won both times, the same way. Hell, I still remember the complaining from the last Celts game. If the Rockets had a decent midrange/perimeter game, these games would have been blowouts instead of close wins, plus more wins vs. zone-oriented teams. Sigh. This is getting too rantish, so I'm going to cut myself off here.
yao and others are pretty comfortable together. let them do their job... i heard yao spend $200 on SF's birthday gift. an XO? i guess the XO made SF high... look a t the photo that Cat jump on Yao's back... why u guys arguing here? Silly....
Just because Steve or Cat hits a 20 footer doesnt mean they shouldnt have passed it to the wide open Yao. My point is that the results do not matter. You adhere to the highest percentage option of scoring and in this case, it is to pass the bal to Yao IF he is wide opened. THIS is one of the major reasons why we are not consistant. Both Cat and Francis had great shooting games. It will be difficult for BOTH of them to shoot like that on the SAME night.
MacB' 1.& 2. Did you watch the game Mac'? If so, check your presciption man cause the lenses are definitely out of focus. The majority of the times the Rox attempted to get the ball to Yao in the begining of the set he was either fronted with weakside help or Battie 3/4tered him and the passers man sagged. Passing into that is not smart. Period. Better to swing the ball and take advantage of either an open shot or get to the re-positioned post man... is this what the Rox did? Yep it sure was and check out this quote from the Chronicle... "They (previously) put a lot of attention on me and Steve," Mobley said. "Then Yao came in, and it's different now. All you have to do is catch and shoot or penetrate and kick." sounds smart to me.... here is another. "... they had so many hands and arms and legs on him that we didn't really want to force the ball to him and make the game a high turnover game," "They were trapping. They always trap. They always double team. The guy who dribbled the ball, myself or Cuttino, got trapped, swung the ball around, sometimes got it back and made other passes for other guys. The ball was moving around great. If we can continue to do that, I think that will be wonderful." So not only did they move the ball around when they double\tripled Yao, but they moved it also when they were trapped themselves. Damn Steve and his low BBIQ. 3. 4. & 5. Give me a break Mac, Steve can get six rebounds in his sleep, Yao should be a monster on the boards night in and night out. He has the potential as we've seen in other games, but like the rest of the Rox, consistentcy is the key. That was my point. And the Rox were not ignoring him, again I ask did you watch the game? They looked for him and the pass wasn't there for the most part... check out this quote from the Chron if you don't believe me. They ran plays designed to get Yao the ball 35 times, including 14 in the first quarter when he could only touch the ball twice. 35 plays...hmmmm. Francis had 9 asst and the team had 23. Sounds like the ball was being moved to me. Looked like it too. I noticed a few times that Francis passed the ball upcourt to a streaking Posey before Steve was even near halfcourt. Y'know testing the transition defense, something a good PG does. Oh and as a leader not only talks a good game, but goes out gives a 110% on the court, gutting it out even through injury. Doing this sets the bar for the rest of the team. Sets and example... like "hey if Steve can come up big and play through his injuries, then why the hell can't I (being perfectly healthy) step it up a notch". That's a leader.
Haven, I don't really think you saw this game when you say "I don't care how they were defending Yao." Maybe you did watch the game, but you didn't look at the defense. And why shouldn't we believe Sportscenter more than what Jonathan Feigen saw. You just look for excuses to call the guards selfish. Boston forced us to win with penetration and perimeter passing, with a zone that Jabbar *never faced* in the nba. And we still ran 35 plays for Yao. We had 23 assists which shows Francis did intend initiate ball movement that was forced by the defense. as for the sportscenter highlights, read rimbaud's take in this thread. sheesh...that Cuttino play came in overtime (as I recall) and you assume that was happening all game. It wasn't. Boston did not misplay Yao until we started burning them with penetration and perimeter ball movement for open shots. it is not an excuse to say that we all saw a couple times when Yao actually got opened in a mass of defenders. It is not an excuse for the guards to acknowledge that we saw those Yao opportunities and still say, so missing him a few times was not the story of the game, it was the lights out shooting that even made Boston misplay Yao. It wouldn't have changed the Boston defense early....Yao still wouldn't have gotten 10 shots, he would have gotten 4 or 5 instead of 2. The story of the game was Boston was going to live or die on a gimmick defense to stop Yao risky allowing our perimeter/penetration game to beat them. Well, the risky defense lost. bottomline: no team in the NBA will look at that Boston defense and decide to use it. Mission accomplished
Damn it - a win is a win but common Jeff I very dissapointed in you. My own is not about passing the ball to a particular but the signs are pointing to the fact that our guards are going back to the stupid dumb plays that has kep us down since. 15 pioint come back? How did we get that far down? How many times will we such games if put in the same situation? The problem here is that many fans (like myself) want to see simple, smart and disciplined basketball team and basketball been played out there NOT MASTURBATORY DRIBBLES!!! For goodness' sake why do we have to do it the hard way DAMNIT?
You'll have people say you can't argue with the results, but that is just bullsh*t... It's a fact, CAT is a ball hog, especially when he's hot, which is what your suppose to do in a game...give it to the guy with the hot hand... I'm not sure when it'll work itself out, but I know Yao would be leading the Rox is scoring if they gave him the damn ball...
the other thing that is telling about all this is that we had this same argument when we played Boston last time. <b>The common factor is their defense.</b> I don't care what announcers at court level are saying. From above, we can see the zones fronting and ready to pounce on a lob pass. We have better views. And some of us aren't looking for faults, to a fault, ready to rewind in slow motion. <b>Fact is:</b> Both games with Boston we had the same argument that the guards are selfish, yet we haven't had that argument in nearly 8 games 'cause Yao is getting the ball (it's plainly obvious), and despite that fact, some still say that Boston's defense did not factor in at all. That's bull. Stop with the theories based on history that predates zones to mention what HOFers did. Yao is facing gimmick zones, and Yao is not a HOFer, yet. Some defenses make it vastly harder to get the ball to Yao as others, defenses where Yao mostly passes on each touch, anyhow. We can argue that there are offenses and guards that can make Boston pay much more for playing that defense, but that doesn't mean the guards are selfish or Rudy is a moron. It means realistically, a Yao high post offense doesn't work yet, so when gimmick defenses deny low post entries, our best response is to use simple ball-movement/penetration kick for open shots....then just make them.
People Lets forget about passing to Yao or MoT for once - lets focus of smart decision making on the ball - on the court. Those comment O'dawg posted are all good and dandy but we have heard them before but the dumb-head scratching plays still abound. Can someone explain to me; 1. Why our guards still dribble into double teams? 2. Why are guard are still doing cross over dribbles with 14 on the short clock with our opponents half court zone defense set? 3. Why some of our players still take a contexted shot with enough time on the clock and with only 2 players touching the ball in the half court set? 4. Why are players STILL continue to stand and watch one or two players do their "thing" thereby limiting the effectiveness of our offense. 5. Can someone please tell me why by now after so many years we are talking about these same issues? Do some of you think that someone like me just manufactures these things. Sometimes I wish I was not a sports fan (beware of what you wish for) in order to avoid these ups and downs. For those who know me, I am a very very simple guy. I love simplicity and straight forwardness everything. I am experienced in this - I have played in organized sports before. It is not rocket science - it is not unrealizable - it is not impossible. Basketball is such a simple sport and we have the tools and ingredients to be consistently good and competitive back so far the lesson has been lost on our present team leaders and that is very very sad. All that sad - I glad we won.
