That wasn't the point. My reply (regarding the lotto) above was pointing out that you had both bases covered. *Just in case you were wrong* It wasn't about "odds" for this or that. It was that you were saying that we "could be a good team" but ALSO "might not." Like I said....*both bases covered* As far as TMac/Yao combo....and JVG offense.... Come next year, you'll be watching the best basketball the Rockets have played in a long time. That will be all the proof I need. You'll see. Even if you don't believe it now.
This isn't *just* about last year. It's about every year since Francis joined the team. The team revolved around him. And as long as he was on this team, he would be the demise of efficiency and chemistry. So, you can add all the *talent* you want. You would never get great chemistry or great efficiency w/Francis on this team. He was not an efficient player. Period! Regardless of his *talent* So, you think that the Jazz, Memphis, and the Pistons have great talent? Or are they just smart enough to play together; as a TEAM. Talent can be defined in many ways. Not sure how you are defining it. For example. You could say that Francis had "talent" in speed, quickness and jumping ability. But he wasn't *talented* in passing and court vision. Thus, he would never achieve any sense of efficiency or chemistry because he worked best by getting his own shot, then looking for others later; and turnover prone to boot! Add the fact that he really wasn't *that* good a scorer made the team's impact that much worse (He not as proficient as Kobe or McGrady are). Look at it this way... Francis wanted to be LIKE McGrady. A SHOOTING GUARD! Thus SF was not playing his role as PG. It is McGrady that will play the same role he's always played. A SHOOTING GUARD that can pass if need be, efficiently. The sad part is that McGrady is a better PG than Francis ever was. And as far as your point that regarding how McGrady gets his assist (passing from trying to score). Well, yes. That's called smart basketball. Too bad SF couldn't do this. If one has an ability to drive (score) but can also *see* the court for the efficient pass. Well, you do that. The reason that the other SGs have more TO is because of what they *know.* Either you know how to see the court or not. One can look for their own shot, as long as they keep an eye out for *other* players on the court. If a SG doesn't have that mindset from the start....well, he'll just be hurting his over-all game in the long run. Carter, Pierce, Iverson, SF are shoot first players. They are just more sloppy at finding/seeing the other man than McGrady is. You either have developed this skill or not (or somewhere in between). I mean, all you are doing is pointing what they are doing. But you are not looking at their decision making (which can vary from bad, mediocre to good). Just depends on that player. You don't have to make excuses for them. Other PG/SG have been able to "make plays for others" without having high TO rates. It has been done. This is an innate skill.
Every year since Francis joined the team the talent level was about the same or even lower, it's always been like that. It has nothing to do with his talent, it has everything to do with the talent around him, you weren't ever going to see a great offense (although they did score a lot of points a few years ago) with the sorry players around no matter who your PG was. Are you kidding me? Memphis had A LOT more talent than the Rockets, come on now, they had guys on the bench that would start at SG, SF, AND PF on the Rockets. The Jazz' and Pistons' offenses produced about as much as the Rockets' offense, so how did they play as a team and the Rockets didn't? The problems on the Rockets offense had little to do with Francis so what you think he can or can't do doesn't really matter, everyone around him and Yao weren't good enough to run a great, effiecient offense, that was the problem. The sad part is that you actually believe that... No it's not, that's called selfish basketball. You don't get your teammates involved the right way like that, you basically turn everyone on your team into a finisher, even though some guys are better when they have the ball in their hands. So just because Tracy doesn't get as many TOs he's a better decision maker? Shooting or not shooting is a decision too, in that regard most people think Tracy is a bad decision maker, good shot or not, make or miss. Like who? You brought up that 2.9 per game average, how many elite PGs are under that? I'm pretty sure that the only one is Steve Nash, maybe Mike Bibby but he's not counted on to make that many plays, Sam Cassell? After that Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, Marbury and Steve Francis average over 3.25, Magic Johnson sometimes averaged over 4, Isiah Thomas did the same. That's why I think using TOs to bring down great PGs, and using A/TO ratio to raise up sorry PGs is very wrong, you make plays you will have TOs, you make a pass here and there and you won't. You're the only playmaker on a sorry team you will have a high amount of TOs and not a high amount of assists, like Francis, although he was still top 10 in the league in that department.
Hmm, it has "NOTHING" to do with Francis "talent?? Oh really? Nothing? I guess the the Spurs winning doesn't have anything to do with Duncan's talent. Or maybe KG for the Wovles? Or maybe Shaq? Listen....This is about what contributions (good and bad) did the LEADER of his team bring to the table. If SF was deemed the "best" on our team, he's also supposed to SET THE BAR the highest. If you ever get to the point where you have to say, "It's not the leaders talent, it's the supporting casts fault...." Well, you better start looking at that problem a little closer. This is why SF was TRADED after 5 YEARS with this team! Enough w/the excuses! Pretend that SF was still on this team and McGrady never came here... Do you think that Francis's game would improve because we got Howard, Lue and Ward? Do you? Tell me! So, do you know why teams like Memphis play well together? They are smart players that *know* how to run plays while maintaining low turnovers. They play well offensively and defensively. They have the complete package. The leaders and role players KNOW how to play as a team. Talent IS important. Absolutely! But so is getting players that KNOW how to play together, efficiently. If Gasol was a selfish player and had HIGH turnovers, he'd hurt the teamplay, regardless of the individual contributions he brought. Francis does NOT KNOW how to play well as a team. He's ISO-minded with a high level of turnovers. This will never change with him. He's been this way since his rookie season. I'll repete this question... Pretend that SF was still on this team and McGrady never came here... Do you think that Francis's game would improve because we got Howard, Lue and Ward? Do you? Tell me! How can you run a "great efficient offense" if the POINT GUARD on the team is one of the most TURNOVER PRONE (w/moderate AST) PG IN THE NBA!? TELL ME PLEASE! McGrady: 5.5 APG/2.8TOPG <---A SHOOTING GUARD! Francis: 6.2 APG/3.7TOPG <---A POINT GUARD that trys to play like a SG! McGrady, although being a SG, can do point guard tasks at a pretty good efficiency. Francis, who IS A PG, can't even keep his TO down. It's not like he's racking up 7-9 AST per game. If that was the case, we'd probably be more forgiving in his 3.7 TO rate. You just got finished telling me how TMac got his assist. Then you go and say it's selfish? What the hell!? This is the way a SHOOTING GUARD is supposed to get his assist; from being a scorer FIRST then a passer SECOND. This is the nature of the SHOOTING GUARD. If he happens to have a gift of passing skill, then that's a bonus! Which McGrady does know how to do. Francis was a POINT GUARD, yet he didn't play like one. He played like a wanabe SHOOTING GUARD! So, you tell me. Who is selfish? A SHOOTING GUARD that plays like a SHOOTING GUARD, or a PG that plays like a SG? Oh, and he's also bad at passing? What are you talking about? I said, it's smart basketball if you have the ability to attract double-teams and can *see* the open man for the pass (w/low TO). That's just smart basketball. Wow! I actually agree with this statement! That's true. Shooting or NOT shooing is also a decision. This too has an effect on ones ability to make/take the best shot possible. This has been a criticism of McGrady. But so has Francis. But when you look at both players: You have to add up the positive and negatives... McGrady has two things going in his favor: High scoring ability and LOW TURNOVERS. This can only make his total package better. Francis has moderate scoring and HIGH TURNOVERS. Take your pick! I hope you know that I pointed out the 2.9 TO rate because you implied that McGrady's 2.67 TO rate was HIGH or something. That's wrong. His TO rate is LOW. A TO rate of 2.67 w/5.5 APG for any guard is very good! For a SHOOTING GUARD, it's excellent! So, here's a list of efficient PGs... Carlos Arroyo 2.20 (5.0 APG) Jason Terry 2.83 (5.4 APG) Tony Parker 2.39 (5.5 APG) Mike Bibby 2.13 (5.4 APG) Chauncey Billups 2.42 (5.7 APG) Andre Miller 2.62 (6.1 APG) Eric Snow 2.28 (6.9 APG) Good Passing SG... Tracy McGrady 2.67 (SG 5.5 APG) <---good playmaker for a SG! Joe Johnson 2.43 (SG/F 4.4 APG) <---decent playmaker for a SG! Cuttino Mobley 2.25 (SG 3.2 APG) <---not a good playmaker, but still keeps his TO down! Kobe Bryany 2.63 (SG 5.1 APG) <---good playmaker for a SG! Elite PGs... Kirk Hinrich 2.68 (6.8 APG!) <----ROOKIE! Sam Cassell 2.72 (7.3 APG!) Steve Nash 2.68 (8.8 APG!) Stephon Marbury 3.07 (8.9 APG!!!) Jason Kidd 3.19 (9.2 APG!!!!) Steve Francis 3.7 (6.2 APG) Do you see how his TO rate his HIGH AND his ASSISTS rate is LOW comparatively to the other "elite" guards? This has a huge impact on how well a PG will be able to play teamball and establish efficiency. You have a low standard for the term "playmaker." Do you know that Magic Johnson, (the real playmaker) although sometimes had 3-4 TO, he also averaged over 11.2APG!!!! Isiah Thomas sometimes had 3+ TOPG, but also averaged 9.3+ APG!!!! John Stockton in 1991 had 3.63 TO per game (yes, high...but...) he achieved 14.2 APG!!! Jason Kidd, although has 3.0+ TOPG but ALSO averages 9+ APG!!!! So, I"m not *just* lookning at a PG's TO rate. I'm looking at his TO RATE + HIS ASSIST AVERAGE. For example, Carlos Arroyo only produces 5.0 APG. But AT LEAST he keep his TO down to 2.2 (very low)! This means that he's not a high TO liability as a PG! Other PG are able to achieve even more than 5.0, yet STILL keep their TO rate under 2.9! Which is even better!
