That's the thing ain't it? Seems to a lot of us that if indeed it was a matter of Mo popping a couple extra painkillers to numb the pain, then it just isn't fair at all that he would be served a suspension equal to one that is served for abusing an illegal substance. And if in fact it was a bum rap, then it's totally preposterous that he would still have to serve the minimum 6 game suspension. If this is indeed the case, this rule is totally ridculous and outrageous, and needs to be reviewed. As for the NBA taking a tough stand, that's a potential load of crap. So, cause some players abuse pot or coke, they gotta crack down and enforce draconian rules on every player who pops an extra aspirin or ingests one too many anti-histamines? What, so if some people exceed the speed limit by going 120 mph, the cops should set a tone by busting people going 75 mph and give them the exact same citation/fine??? That's absurd. The NBA needs to have a little perspective.
Batman Jones, I am reading from the NBA player web site : Section 7. Testing of Veteran Players. (a) In addition to the testing procedures set forth in Section 5 above, a Veteran Player may be required to undergo testing for Prohibited Substances by the NBA no more than one (1) time each Season (i) during regular training camp, or, (ii) in the case of a Veteran Player who joins a Team with fewer than fifteen (15) days remaining in regular training camp or who joins a Team during the Regular Season (and provided such Veteran Player had not previously been tested during such training camp or Season), during the first fifteen (15) days after such player reports to his Team. (b) In the event that a Veteran Player tests positive for a Drug of Abuse pursuant to this Section 7, he shall immediately be dismissed and disqualified from any association with the NBA or any of its Teams in accordance with the provisions of Section 12(a). If the player tests positive for mar1juana or Steroids pursuant to this Section 7, he shall enter the Program and suffer the applicable consequences set forth in Sections 9 or 10 below, as the case may be. Section 8. Drugs of Abuse Program. (a)Voluntary Entry. (i) A player may enter the Drugs of Abuse Program voluntarily at any time by Coming Forward Voluntarily for a problem involving the use of a Drug of Abuse; provided, however, that a player may not Come Forward Voluntarily (A) until he has been selected in an NBA Draft or invited to an NBA training camp; (B) during any period in which an Authorization for Testing as to that player remains in effect pursuant to Section 5 above; (C) during any period in which he remains subject to in-patient or aftercare treatment in Stage 1 of the Drugs of Abuse Program; or (D) after he has reached Stage 2 of the Drugs of Abuse Program. (ii) If a player who has not previously entered the Drugs of Abuse Program Comes Forward Voluntarily for a problem involving the use of a Drug of Abuse, he shall enter Stage 1 of the Drugs of Abuse Program. (iii) If a player who has not previously entered Stage 2 of the Drugs of Abuse Program, but who has been notified by the Medical Director that he has successfully completed Stage 1 of that Program, Comes Forward Voluntarily for a problem involving the use of a Drug of Abuse, he shall enter Stage 2 of the Drugs of Abuse Program. (iv) No penalty of any kind will be imposed on a player as a result of having Come Forward Voluntarily for a problem involving the use of a Drug of Abuse. The foregoing sentence shall not preclude the imposition of a penalty under Section 8(c)(iv) below as a result of the player’s entering Stage 2 of the Drugs of Abuse Program, or any penalty called for by this Article XXXIII as a result of conduct by the player that occurs after he has Come Forward Voluntarily. (b) Stage 1. (i) Any player who has entered Stage 1 of the Drugs of Abuse Program shall be required to submit to an evaluation by the Medical Director, provide (or cause to be provided) to the Medical Director such relevant medical and treatment records as the Medical Director may request, and commence the treatment and testing program prescribed by the Medical Director. (ii) If a player, within ten (10) days of the date on which he was notified that he had entered Stage 1 of the Drugs of Abuse Program and without a reasonable excuse, fails to comply (in the professional judgment of the Medical Director) with any of the obligations set forth in Section 8(b)(i) above, he shall be suspended until such time as the Medical Director determines that he has fully complied with Section 8(b)(i). If such noncompliance continues without a reasonable excuse (in the professional judgment of the Medical Director) for thirty (30) days from the date on which the player was notified that he had entered Stage 1 of the Drugs of Abuse Program, the player shall (A) advance to Stage 2 of the Drugs of Abuse Program, or (B) the player’s Team may, notwithstanding any term or provision in or amendment to the player’s Uniform Player Contract, terminate such Contract without any further obligation to pay Compensation, except to pay the Compensation (either Current or Deferred) that may have been earned by the player to the date of termination. (iii) Except as provided in this Article XXXIII, no penalty of any kind will be imposed on a player while he is in Stage 1 of the Drugs of Abuse Program and, provided he complies with the terms of his prescribed treatment, he will continue to receive his Compensation during the term of his treatment for a period of up to three (3) months of care in an In-Patient Facility and such aftercare as may be required by the Medical Director. (c) Stage 2. (i) Any player who has entered Stage 2 of the Drugs of Abuse Program shall be required to submit to an evaluation by the Medical Director, provide (or cause to be provided) to the Medical Director such relevant medical and treatment records as the Medical Director may request, and commence the treatment and testing program prescribed by the Medical Director. (ii) If a player, within thirty (30) days of the date on which he was notified that he had entered Stage 2 of the Drugs of Abuse Program and without a reasonable excuse, fails to comply (in the professional judgment of the Medical Director) with any of the obligations set forth in Section 8(c)(i) above, he shall immediately be dismissed and disqualified from any association with the NBA or any of its Teams in accordance with the provisions of Section 12(a) below. (iii) A player in Stage 2 of the Drugs of Abuse Program shall be suspended during the period of his in-patient treatment and for at least the first six (6) months of his aftercare treatment. The player shall remain suspended during any subsequent period in which he is undergoing treatment that, in the professional judgment of the Medical Director, prevents him from rendering the playing services called for by his Uniform Player Contract. (iv) Any subsequent use, possession, or distribution of a Drug of Abuse by a player in Stage 2, even if voluntarily disclosed, or any conduct by a player in Stage 2 that results in his advancing one Stage in the Drugs of Abuse Program, shall result in the player being immediately dismissed and disqualified from any association with the NBA or any of its Teams in accordance with the provisions of Section 12(a) below. (d)Treatment and Testing Program. A player who enters the Drugs of Abuse Program shall be required to comply with such in-patient and aftercare program as may be prescribed and supplemented from time to time by the Medical Director. Such program may include random testing for Prohibited Substances other than Steroids, and for alcohol, and such non-testing elements as may be determined in the professional judgment of the Medical Director. I don't understand how a ten game suspension can be arrived at from reading the above. It seems the Medical Director is calling the shots on compliance and when he is able to return. That is under the premise that he has had some slippage in following the treatment program, but not enough to push him into Stage Two territory.
First, to those who say Vicodin is like strong aspirin, it's stronger and more dangerous than that. If Mo was taking it for legit pain -- even if he was taking more than prescribed (but not a seriously excessive amount) -- I think the suspension's bogus. That's assuming that's what he got suspended for, of course. But no one should mistake it for a totally benign drug. It can be very addictive and, if mixed with alcohol, it can make you seriously high. I'm not suggesting Mo did something wrong or didn't, but Vicodin is far more powerful and potentially far more dangerous than pot. Mango: Thanks for posting that, but I'm not sure what I was supposed to read. Can you repost just the significant sections? I read the whole thing carefully and I'm a little stumped as to the relevance. I think we can agree Mo probably didn't come forward of his own accord to say he had a drug problem. That exes out a pretty good chunk of the section you posted. I also didn't see anything relevant to ten-day suspensions or to weed or codeine (which I believe is the banned substance present in Vicodin). Maybe you're suggesting that he recently entered Stage One, but that doesn't make sense to me either. He would have entered Stage One in late 2001. How long is Stage One supposed to last? I think we can all assume Mo, sometime in the last two years, has completed Stage One. It would take another violation to put him there again. And, as of that violation, he would be suspended. If it was for weed, according to everything I've read, that suspension would be five games. He wouldn't be able to fail to comply with Stage One without first receiving the commensurate penalty (5 games) for the offense that landed him there in the first place. Frankly I haven't seen anything posted on this board that explains a 10 game suspension. I've seen stuff that would merit a 5 game, I've seen stuff that would merit expulsion from the league, and I've seen stuff that would merit an indefinite string of 5 game supsensions, but nothing yet that would point to a 10 game. But maybe I'm just not reading the legalese clearly. So Mango (if you're still reading), if you're seeing something there, please help me see it too.
Batman, My understanding of the NBA - Player Association contract on Drug Policy is that there are three distinct parts: 1) Drugs of Abuse (amphetamine and its analogs, cocaine, LSD, opiates, PCP etc) 2) mar1juana 3) Steroids Each part (drug violation) has a certain prescribed action plan for getting the player in compliance. It doesn't seem to be cummulative in which a mar1juana violation + Drugs of Abuse violation puts a person in Stage two and on the cusp of getting a long term suspension. OK.........condensed and skipping down to the section for people like Mo with a history of trouble in this area. Section 11.Noncompliance with Treatment. (b)mar1juana. (i) Any player who, after entering the mar1juana Program, fails to comply (without a reasonable excuse) with his treatment program as prescribed and determined by the Medical Director, shall be fined $1,000 for each day that he fails to comply. Such fines shall continue until the player has, in the professional judgment of the Medical Director, resumed full compliance with his treatment program. The total amount of such fines shall not exceed the player’s total Compensation. (ii)Notwithstanding Section 11(b)(i) above, any player who, after entering the mar1juana Program, fails to comply with his treatment program through (A) a pattern of behavior that demonstrates a mindful disregard for his treatment responsibilities, or (B) a positive test for mar1juana that is not clinically expected by the Medical Director, shall suffer the following penalties: (1) if the player has not previously been fined $15,000 under Section 9(c) above or this Section 11(b)(ii), a fine of $15,000; (2) if the player has previously been fined $15,000 under Section 9(c) above or this Section 11(b)(ii), a suspension of five (5) games; or (3) if the player has previously been suspended for five (5) games under Section 9(c) above or this Section 11(b)(ii), an indefinite number of five-game (5) suspensions that shall continue until, in the professional judgment of the Medical Director, the player resumes full compliance with his treatment program. (iii) In addition to any consequence to the player under Section 11(b)(ii) above, any player who has entered the mar1juana Program but not the Drugs of Abuse Program, and tests positive for a Drug of Abuse in any test conducted by the Medical Director, shall enter Stage 1 of the Drugs of Abuse Program. Sam mentioned the progressive punishment for repeated violations of mar1juana which is (3). Mo has been in the mar1juana treatment program, but might be on the verge of entering the Drugs of Abuse Program if the painkiller story is true (as the last paragraph quoted above states). I have read through the document several times and haven't found anything concrete for a definitive suspension after initially entering the Drugs of Abuse treatment program. If one starts to slip in treatment, then suspensions start to follow. You raised a question about the length of time one is considered to be in a treatment program and I haven't arrived at an answer for that. At least three readings of the web page and still searching for the answer.
Thanks, Mango. If you find an answer to the length of the Stage One treatment program I'd be interested in knowing what it is. As for the relevant section on mar1juana violations, the only thing I see, still (and I'm unclear, but this makes the most sense to me) -- other than a five game suspension -- is a series of indefinite five game suspensions. I see nothing that suggests a fixed ten game suspension, which would presume the doctor making the call knew that the offender wouldn't comply within the time a 5 game would take but would comply within the time a 10 game would take. The period of suspension, in the case of a violation of prescribed treatment, seems to hinge on successful completion of a training program, which suggests that a 10 game suspension would be arbitrary and based on a pure guess that the offender would fail to comply in a timely manner, but would do so not so much eventually but within a specific (again, seemingly arbitrary) period of time. There is no mechanism for an incrementally increased punishment for mar1juana use except that it be indefinite. Ten games is, by any definition, not indefinite. The league policy, as reposted to this site, has yet to provide any explanation for a ten game suspension -- that I can see, at least -- under the drug policy. The only conclusion I can arrive at with any confidence, according to what I've read here, is that there is probably something to the players' union's claim that this ten game suspension is an anomaly and a bum rap.
Thanks for the research, Mango. That is a pretty confusing thing to read. Batman/Mango, I remember reading earlier that the Players Union can make only 2 of these appeals per season. Is that correct? And is that per team or does it encompass the entire league? If it's 2 appeals per year by the Union in total, for all teams combined, then that would lead me to think that they must feel that there is a strong reason to think Taylor was unfairly suspended. If it's 2 appeals per team, then maybe... maybe no. It must be hard for the players to keep track of what the penalties are. I certainly would want a good agent who could put things in layman's terms. A lot of these guys didn't have much in the way of college. It seems simple enough... don't do the illegal stuff and you won't have to worry. But if it is in fact a pain medication, with a prescription, that's the problem (which we really don't know, except from what we've heard in this thread and one or two others), then I can see a reason for an appeal. We'll have to wait and see. The gag orders on these things don't help us get the info. We are dependent on what sources we can get, obviously. So a big thanks to our providers of "inside info". (unless it doesn't pan out as true... then you folks can expect to need a dumpster to put all the **** that going to be coming your way, deserved or not )
Deckard: From what I've read, they get two expedited appeals per year. Whole league, not per team. I think they can appeal as many times as they want, but they expedited this one because they apparently have reason to believe they'll get it overturned before the suspension's fully served. IIRC the expedited appeal's heard by the league in 10 (or maybe 15) days instead of 30, by which time a successful appeal might restore salary and good name but not playing time.
if the suspension is overturned, does mo get back his salary for the 6 games missed? i would hope so! that's in excess of $500,000 he'd be getting stolen from him.
Taylor continues to break the rules. Granted he is apologetic but he has not changed. He took money at Michigan which is breaking the rules, he got suspended for dope, which means he had tested positive more than once. Now he got popped again for abusing pills. MO TAYLOR IS A DISAPPOINTMENT...He still cant play defense or rebound and for $8 mill a year the Rockets are getting screwed.
Forget all of his off the court issues. He doesn't hustle back on defense because he is too busy complaining or jogging. He can't play a lick of defense..... I prefer to have Braggs on the court.
Very true, Braggs know his place on the team appears to be very humble. Taylor is whiny baby that, only thing I like about his game is his ability to break his man down and score when everything else isnt clicking, but as long as the Rocks stick to this team concept we can let the guards do this when we have too.
If he took a dose of painkillers that exceeds the allowed amount, how would the suspension be unjustified? And how would that be stealing money from him? Just because it may not be weed, but painkillers, does not need to mean that the suspension is not justified.
Thanks for the info, ER. If you remember, I propped you after you nailed the Rudy scoop. . . . that being said, if your info is from the ball boy, don't discount the possibility that he was part of a misinformation campaign. Perhaps spread by MoT and his agent. My money's still on it being weed. It would be real embarrassing for MoT to admit that he tested positive for weed, especially after his apology last year. A lot easier to say it was a bad test, or it was a painkiller, etc.
Ouch, if he got suspended for taking a couple extra Vicodin, then that is harsh. Vicodin are alright, but Mo should have taken a real opiate and popped a few Oxy's.
Thanks, Batman. So it's a pretty big deal for the Union to make an expedited appeal for Taylor. They are left with only one other for the rest of the season. You would think they would have strong grounds to think it's worthwhile doing, that being the case. I suppose it'll "come out in the wash" eventually. Mo is an important part of the rotation, despite the good start the team has had, who will be missed if this suspension lasts the entire time or becomes something even more serious. (for reasons unknown) Many may think he's not needed, with the Rocks sitting on top of the WC, but we've played a weak schedule so far. Things are gonna get hairy soon enough.
Batman, Don't know if this would help. If the rule is an "indefinite suspensions of five games" then the total number of games a player in this case can be suspended will have to be in multiples of 5. It makes sense that they initially make it 10 (1 more five-game suspension than last time). If he doesn't comply to the treatment program, they can continue adding more 5-game suspensions on top of it, indefinitely. Does that make sense? All this is assuming that Taylor is indeed in that category, of course.
Easy, Maybe. I guess. I mean, I guess it makes as much sense as any other interpretation of the rules we've seen posted here -- which is to say, it doesn't make too much sense at all. Why have a rule at all that states that a fourth bust for weed (the second punishable one) carries a penalty of five games and then come back and say, well, you've already done a five game so we're bumping it to ten? The punishment for weed is clear (on a third, fourth, fifth or tenth violation): five game suspension. Why not just start out with incrementally increased punishments for repeat violations? I'm not arguing whether or not they should have increases for repeat offenders -- that's a moot point. They don't. The league rules are clear about that. A fourth weed bust equals a five game suspension. Mo got ten. Conclusion: it wasn't weed. As for failing to complete a treatment program and hence earning an indefinite suspension... It is only after a five game suspension is assigned to a player that he begins the treatment program. And it's only after he's begun a treatment program (or refused to) that he can fail to follow it. In other words, I still see no mechanism for a ten game suspension for a weed bust. None. Nada. If this was a bust for failing to comply with a prescribed program, he would have gotten five games first. And we would have heard about it. We didn't. Conclusion: it wasn't weed. As for the people saying they still believe it's probably weed... wow. I mean, wow. Nothing points to that anymore and everything points away from it. We've even got someone on here saying that Mo's lying and spreading a disinformation campaign because he's embarassed. The details of the appeal may never become public, but the union and the league and other inside folks will eventually know what went down. Far more embarassing to have lied and launched a propoganda campaign, when you know people will find out what really went down. Add to that the fact that while Mo's been busted for pot, he's never been accused of dishonesty. Nice insult to injury. The stubborn attempts to stick to the original (then plausible, now highly unlikely) theory of this being a weed thing require incredible contortions of logic. Way to stick with it, fellas. Your committment to the Mo as pothead idea, against all anecdotal evidence to the contrary, is truly impressive.
heres a blurb on taylors situation... http://www.detnews.com/2003/pistons/0311/16/c08-326527.htm * Don't convict Rockets forward Maurice Taylor just yet. It seems as if he might have been unfairly charged. As you know, Taylor, who played at Michigan, was suspended 10 games for his second violation of the league drug policy. But the player's association has appealed the ruling, saying what the drug test turned up was something that had been prescribed for Taylor's dislocated left shoulder. It should not have been considered a violation. Said player's association representative Dan Wasserman: "The authority for this discipline does not exist in the collective bargaining agreement. We think it's a completely improper application of the drug program. We've asked for an expedited appeal to allow for an arbitrator to conduct a hearing as quickly as is possible under the rules of the collective bargaining agreement."
