More French Chicanery - Passports Given To Iraqi's To Escape From Syria To Europe

First of all we don't know if was a mistake or even true for that matter. Second if true who are these Iraqis, are they really good people who were caught up in something they could not control (think of the Iraqi who saved Jessica Lynch). If they were murderous Iraqi officials and the French gov. was foolish enough to assist in their escape then the French should be rightfully punished for their actions.

On your statement about us not knowing they were terrorists, shouldn't some sort of red flag have gone up after they flew an airplane into the World Trade Center? Please tell me you understand the difference between bureacracy and an outright foolish human error.

 

I just like the word chicanery.

 

Diplomatic relations are built on trust....Hmmm...


In the last year we have:

1) Bugged UN officals we thought opposed the war in an effort to derail their ability to back up their opinion.

2) 'Overemphasized' the nature of the WMD aspect of the Iraqi threat in order to convince other nations to do what we wanted them to do.

3) Spat in the face of 50 years of telling other nations, france included, that they could not invade another nation for their won reasons contrary to global opinion and Un ruling...and done it ourself, because we're the Big Dog.

4) Presented evidence to the UN which was untrue...some of it the result of fabrication, some of it the result of faulty intel coupled with less than zealous confirmation.

Etc...


What reason does France have to be obligated by this diplomatic 'trust' you speak of? We don't even know what officials we're talking about here, so how do you know that they have abything to do with atrocities, let alone have been found guilty of them? because we're after them? Even if France should help in the pursuit of HR criminals ( contrary to their diplomatic position) on our say so, what reason do they have to trust our assesment? What if our intel re: these officials is wrong? What if it's fabricated? What if we're 'overemphasizing' the HR violation aspect of theses officials because we want them for other reasons which we feel wouldn't be sufficient for other nations to comply with? You are the one who brought up trust...No one has engendered more diplomatic distrust in the last while than us...and this comes from several resigning diplomats, former Presidents, intelligence operatives, pollsters, foreign leaders, etc...Interesting reversal of position.

 

1. We agree completely on the first part!! Good!! Let me repeat your words..."If they wre murderous Iraqi officials and the French gov. was foolish enough to assist in their escape, then the French should be rightfully punished for their actions." I agree entirely...though I don't think there is much that can be done, other than diplomatically, to punish them for that. Again...all this assume it's true!

2. We agree on the second point too!!! wow!!! we're on a roll. It was a freaking ridiculous...mistake. A mistake. A stupid, foolish human error. Dumb, dumb, dumb. The creation of a human system, nonetheless...but dumb.

no argument here on either point.

 

This is tiresome, MacBeth. You're right. They shouldn't trust us. They should give aid and assistance to Saddam, himself. If they have a chance to help out Osama, they ought to try that too. After all, he's much more trustworthy than we are. Clearly you can't trust us...but you sure can trust Saddam's regime!! So help them as much as you can. I hear they're gonna give asylum to Terry Nichols too. Should work out well. And we certainly have no probable cause to hold these people long enough to figure out if they did something wrong to begin with! I mean...to assume otherwise is just silly. These guys mean no one any real harm! Isn't that clear?

 

Excellent! Now I can go about my day happy and carefree...unless those Frenchies are trying to steal my liberties...

 

MM...


Tiresome? I agree...You state that they don't have to alter their diplomatic stance according to our actions, but cite diplomatic 'trust' as the basis for why they should. I point out that they have no reason to feel any diplomatic trust towards us, and you respond with a series of sarcastic and dismissive statements equating my position to saying that they should help out mass terrorists, when all I was doing was refuting your supposed obligation of diplomatic trust, or at least showing how we see it as a one way street.

Beneath you.

 

Ah darn!U just ruined my plans for today?!...



ALA

 

The French are easily foiled...

 

1. was it their diplomatic stance previously to secretly provide visas to saddam's regime? was it their stance to hide these guys and keep them from justice? we've already heard the UN talking about war crimes and human rights offenses against these guys? that doesn't seem entirely consistent.

2. you point out why the US is untrustworthy in their relationship with the French....is the Iraqi regime equally untrustworthy? or do their bad deeds just get forgotten? i guess they're forgotten when these guys enjoy the beaches of south america, huh? now where's the one way street? and where's the bigger injustice? yes, i responded with sarcasm...i felt it called for it. no matter how evil you think the US might be...there is no excuse for providing safe haven for these turkeys. the world community has called these guys out for a long time now. some were willing to use force to remove them..some weren't. but aiding their escape after the collapse of the regime...and doing so in secret...that's shameless.

3. beneath me?? nah...i can go way lower than that.

 

Lower than a snakes belly?
Lower than a snakes shadow?
How low can you go?

I'm dying to know...

 

Wow, Ottomaton. Rarely see you so excited.

Did you get sick on foie gras? Or caviar...frog legs...snails...
(sheesh...don't they have chickens or cows over there?)

 

Just one question: Have you ever spoken,listened or even seen a frenchmen out side of Fox news?

There are cows in France but they're too busy looking at the train pass by.



ALA

 

First off,on what ground do u base YOUR xenophobic arguments?if u call that arguments...
Second,I don't know if u've either been to France or England lately but I live in both and I can tell u a part from the patriotics ****** like u,there is no English-French tension,less again hate.
Maybe u have historical background to back u up,but I have better: I live this dayly.
Please don't state ur opinion as a general one.



ALA

 

U know what,count me out of this French Bashing BS.
Like FB,I'm getting tired of the same old political debats...
When u start off by insulting me and think there can be no debat here.
I'll just end on this: like u said facts are facts,and I base mine on what i live on a everyday basis.
I so pissed right now that I can't go on...



ALA


(BTW,just smelled my arm pits and I'm glad to say that they don't smell!)

 

Is that really Ottomaton?


Or could it be...

 

That's understandable ALA.

I assume you know that my comment was only in jest. I may have a problem with your gov (as many have a problem with ours) but it's not personal by any means.

 

FWIW:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...e=6&u=/ap/20030507/ap_on_re_eu/france_us_ties

French Minister Seeks Better U.S. Ties
Wed May 7, 7:45 PM ET Add World - AP to My Yahoo!

PARIS - The French defense minister is urging her countrymen to send "some messages" to prevent relations with the United States from deteriorating.

In an interview with Le Parisien newspaper, Michele Alliot-Marie said that she was concerned about Americans turning against France because of its opposition to the U.S.-led war to oust Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).


"What is worrying are the reactions of an American public opinion heated to white hot by political and media campaigns that undermine trans-Atlantic relations," Alliot-Marie said.


"It will be important for us to send some messages in the upcoming months because, if not, this phenomenon could be deep and long-lasting," she said.


The interview was to be published in Thursday's editions. The Associated Press received an advance copy late Wednesday.


France opposed the U.S.-led push for war against Iraq (news - web sites), and threatened to use its veto in the U.N. Security Council to block military action — a threat that infuriated Washington.


Officials from both nations have acknowledged the strains. Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) has said that France would face consequences for opposing the war.


In the interview, Alliot-Marie insisted France and the United States didn't disagree on the core of the Iraq question, but on the timetables and methods.


She also expressed optimism for a thaw in U.S.-French ties, saying politicians are pragmatic.


"They know that the important thing is the deep and durable bonds of friendship between our two countries," the minister said.