Moratorium, please: No more using "max contract" argument RE: Francis

As far as I am concerned, Steve is being properly paid. He brings in a lot of money for this organization. Tickets and merchandise and whatever else they sell. He is popular and brings in the money. His on the court play may not deserve it this year, but I don't think he is over paid when you add in these other things.

 

He is popular and he makes the franchise money no doubt about it. But I think anyone on this board saying that Francis is overpaid, they mean it in the context of what he brings to the team on the court and there I'd say he has proven he is not worth that kind of money.

 

Flawed reasoning. The Rockets average 5 PPG fewer this year under JVG's system than they did last year. Steve averages 4.5 fewer PPG. If he were shooting better, he'd be close to his career average of 19.4 PPG. He's getting fewer rebounds, too, but let's not forget that Yao is getting more points and rebounds than last year.

Combined the decreased offense under JVG with Yao's emergence, and it's not unexpected (or problematic) that Steve's averages are down. His shooting percentage, while agonizing, is not a huge problem, since he's shooting less this year anyway. In fact, I'm not sure how many people realize this: Steve is missing fewer shots this year than he did last year. (8.79 MissesPG this year / 9.15 MissesPG last year)

I'm more concerned with his mental lapses and tendency to showboat.

 

Brent Barry could possibly come in here and do the same job as Steve for much less money. Look at the Sonics go into the tank without that guy.

 

If we didn't pay Steve MAX then we would have angered him and he would have walked...and we get nothing in return.

That is the business. Love it or leave it.

If you don't like his production, it's irelevant. You can't afford to let him walk. If the Rox felt like they could have paid less, they would have.

It's called market value. Cost of doing business.

Don't like it? Good thing your not paying it! If you have tickets, then quite your b****ing or don't buy more tickets.

If you are in business, there are risks involved. Every player doesn't meet their potential...because potential isn't quantifiable. If it was, everybody would be challenging for the championship every season. **** happens and then you move on.

Like JVG says, he needs interchangable parts, so he can counter for loss of production in the event of injury, AWOL (EGriffin), or whatever. That is why it is called a team.

 

Alas alas alas. Mostly correct, but you make one crucial mistake:

Assuming that Steve's value is remotely near the max, then he's a tradeable commodity. So, if you disapprove of his cost - you sign him for the max, then trade him.

So your argument that "we would have lost all value if we hadn't given him the max," while technically true, is irrelevant.

 

Look at the championship teams. The Lakers and the Spurs don't have a single player that's not worthy of the max. Also, Francis would never make the max if he's on the Kings. All three elite teams haven't dug a deep hole like the Rockets in the capspace. Careful cap management is quite important in winning a championship today. These championship caliber teams tell you how to build a team.

 

Let me elaborate on your points by saying that the Rockets do not have massive revenues coming in like the Lakers. They are on freaking Channel 51. They have the same budgetary problems as Drayton McLane has with the Astros to a lesser extent due to the national TV contract. I believe part of the reason why James Posey was not resigned was due to Les Alexander not wanting to pass a certain payroll threshold. This is not monopoly money, but it is ludicrous to be paying Boardwalk money for a player when only Vermont Ave. rent is taken back.

 

What do you mean the Lakers and Spurs don't players not worthy of the max? I don't know about you, but I don't think Horace Grant and Robert Horry deserve the max.

Ya, you're right, Francis wouldn't get the max if he was on the Kings, but HE'S NOT ON THE KINGS. Every team has their max players, Kings have C-Webb and he's played 4 games this season.

I agree that cap management is important, but it's a lot more about chemistry than cap management. Steve got the max, big deal, so do a lot of players. It's players like Cato, MoT, Mooch, Maloney, that do the real damage.

 

DonKnutts: a word of advice, which I must confess I stole from A-Train, the best way to start an anti-SF thread is to start a pro-SF thread....

 

Where did you get the idea that Grant and Horry are making the max? I was talking about Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan making the max according to the list provided by the thread starter.

The difference is C-Web deserves the max when he's healthy, he is the best player on the Kings. Now that he's back in the flow, the Kings are poised to take the title this year. The difference also lies in that the Kings can afford their max player going AWOL for a while because they're too good. The Rockets, meanwhile, need to make every penny worthwhile because they are not so good. Championships teams grant max contracts to the top players in the league. Average teams grant max contract to 2nd tier players and get tied up long term.

Chemistry always comes with time. Bad cap management kills time by being inflexible. I'm not opposing giving max contracts to second tier players all the way. Exceptions should be made when a player fits in very well and becomes hard to replace in a system. In that case, compatibility is bought with money. Unfortunately that's not the case with Francis. His game doesn't mesh well with Yao's and the inside-out game. Francis is a second tier star making max to begin with, and his game doesn't exactly fit the Rockets. In short, Francis doesn't deserve making max on the Rockets.

 

DonKutts,

nice thread

was also fairly covered in this thread

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72710

 

my question: sort of stupid.

HOW come TD 's salary is only 12M sth? I guess he should get at least as much as KG.

 

The 1998 collective bargaining agreement. TD renegotiated after the fact (after his rookie contract expired). And because of that there will be no more sky-high, break the bank contracts (like KG, Shaq, Howard got). That's why you don't see anymore $100 million dollar contracts. It is good because owners were being "held hostage" by so-called "franchise players." And these "stars" were playing a "I can get a higher contract than you" pissing contest that wasn't going to end until the oweners put a stop to it...it was crazy....first $90 mil, then $95, then $100 mil, then $105, then $110, then $120 mil....

And what preceded those numbers was a statment like, "I wont play for your team unless you give me more than so-and-so just got in so-and-so city."

The "Where's my dime!" link -> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/1999/01/05/lockout_chronology/

By the way, keep an eye on Juwan Howard, when his contract ends on a couple years. He better start saving now and not blow his money on yachts and mansions.

 

Some one made one of these posts a few weeks ago, but it's still refreshing to read it again.

Too bad a good thread gets covered in trash. A positive thread is already turning sour.

 

Question is if the Rockets had cap space for a max contract player and all the guys on that list were availble which ones would you be willing to offer a max contract to? Would Francis be one of them?

 

Good point. But jumping to a conclusion that we can actually pull off such a sign/trade that is to our advantage is a huge assumption. Very few teams, at a point in time, could even financially entertain the thought of trading for a max player. Those that could, would have to severly impact their existing team chemistry and wouldn't risk doing so. Then, if you attempt a trade and it doesn't work or it leaks out, you really piss off Francis and he'd want to walk anyway on principal alone.

Most huge trades for star players come about because the player is already dissatisfied with the situation...which wasn't the case w/ Steve. Also don't forget that when we signed him, he was playing really well (i.e. his stats were good). <I know you can disput that statement, "playing well", but that is a subjective argument>

The likelyhood of pulling off a sign/trade for a max player is extremely remote. Yes we could do it, but we likely wouldn't get equal value in return.

The reality of trading Steve is slim to none. He is an exceptional talent that is proving he wants to get better. Plus he isn't a disruption in the locker room and he sells tickets and merchandise.

If I am a business man, I'd stick w/ Francis and hope he learns to adjust to JVG's system. Steve's upside is greater than the downside of a botched trade. Too much risk in a trade.

 

maybe Tim should NOT have stayed in school . . .. stay all 4 yrs is costing him now



Rocket River

 

rofl - I have wondered if anybody else has called "DonKnutts", Barney, but that was classic.

I completely agree with Hydra - when you pay someone a max contract, there are expectations. People want to feel that they are getting their money's worth; nothing sucks ass more than overpaying for a vehicle. Every time you look at it or drive it, you are angered that you got taken.

I will actually say something that will probably blow some people's minds here, but I think Francis has been playing pretty good of late, especially after the Super Bowl fiasco. I hope he can continue it as we will need both him and Yao, if we want to make some noise in the playoffs.

 

BTW, can anyone tell that whether there is a limit other teams can offer Yao after next season? I know that he will get the max. The key is lots of players go way above max. Realistically, how much should we offer him in order for him to stay put? I know that he is not the kind of guy who only plays for $$$.........but $ does talk.