No matter how hard you try you can't deny that Mooch is seeing some discontent among his team. There is no way to know who or why but it's there.
I have thought that everyone knew that the players have not been doing exactly what Rudy T wants. Thats one of the reasons why I can't understand people wanting Rudy to be replaced. NBA Basketball is such a TEAM game. Street ball isn't. We'll see how much Stevie and the other guys want a playoff win. Its clear now that Yao can score with much less effort than our guards.
I love how alot of you are taking Moochie's comments and automatically assume: 1. He must be talking about Steve,and 2. Steve would hate sharing the workload and the limelight with Yao. Didn't we hash this to death between the lottery and the draft?? Steve was not on the Yao bandwagon until the coaches convinced him he could be the low post presence to balance the outside game, but since then has been nothing but exemplary in his support of Yao on and off the court. Steve wanted and still wants to win ASAP and Yao's rapid development only means the team gets to the winning stage faster. That plus what he revealed about his talks in the offseason with Jerry West and others about how to be a leader and how to elevate your team (all he's been saying and doing) goes completely against the picture you guys continue to try to paint of Steve. Kidd and Payton are players who don't lead their teams on the stat board every night but they are leaders of their team every night. Steve has said over and over that he's working to become that type of player and leader. Does he have a ways to go to get there? Yes. Will he have to make adjustments to share the workload with Yao? Yes. Will games like last night help him feel that Yao is ready to start helping him share that workload? Yes. Up until now has he had anyone on the team that he could count on for help EVERY NIGHT or has he been the only one who fits that description? I think he'd love to have someone else he can count on all the time. As soon as he's sure Yao is ready, I think Steve makes the transition and takes his game to yet another level. Give it a rest already and give the guy a break.
EXACTLY! Sheesh. Besides, how did this go from Moochie commenting on Rudy's playcalling to Steve Francis being unhappy??? What a stretch! My guess is the guys that are unhappy are the one's who aren't getting minutes and touches. Francis gets plenty of touches and he has consistently said that Yao makes the game easier for him to get shots. Damn, next we'll see a "Francis Unhappy: How About Trading Him for..." thread. Way too much filling in the blank going on around here.
I am just glad to see that Rudy is indeed telling his guys what to do..... That means it is just a matter of time before they GET it, or if they refuse, Rudy will bench them or trade them. Whomever...THEM....is... DaDakota
I agree with Jeff and Will. This is an absolutely ludicrous leap we are making about Moochie's comment and trouble between Steve and Yao. I have seen no evidence of that being at the games or watching them on TV- actually quite the contrary.
Moochie played 24 minutes, he averages almost 21min, but with Cat on the IR, he will get more time than normal with Steve. The fact that RudyT played Steve the entire 48 minutes of the game indicates Rudy was satisfied with his play. This was a good win..Why not enjoy it, instead of nitpicking.
Here is a post game quote from Steve. "I think if you really look at the past, when we have played against San Antonio, I think Kenny has done a good job against Tim Duncan. Tim is also an All-Star and when you double-team him he is a smart enough player to know when to pass the ball out of the double-team. Yao is doing a great job of scoring when we get the ball to him." ...A great job.... Now maybe some of you can read in to this and say that Steve has a ( as someone put it in another thread ) man crush on Yao. edit to put the link in- http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/RocketsSpurs_Postgame_Quotes_-60386-34.html Blatz
He couldn't have said anything positive about Ming, because he obviously thinks we won due to our free throw shooting
really??!!!! Why are we not to assume the play he is talking about executing is his little dribbler play where Moochie plays a two man game or breaks down his man. You know, the play most of us HATE as well. Why is this presumed to be Moochie executing some fancy play that we all want, but the teammates don't...those malcontents. Interesting how one quote can be read two c o m p l e t e l y different ways. Moochie also said to Feigen after the game that he intends to play just like last year. <blockquote><hr>From Jonathan Feigen, "...this is what you're going to se for the rest of the year--<b>me just playing my normal game, just like last year." Moochie said.</b><hr></blockquote> So, juxtopose that Moochie quote with "even if my teammates don't like it" and you decide whether it is about his teammates not liking Moochie the little dribbler like last year, or his teammates not liking some new offense that presumably only Moochie will run. btw: Francis did in fact wave off a Yao pick to tell Yao to get into the low post for a pass. Should we interpret that as meaning Yao doesn't want to be in the low post, that Francis had to tell him to do it????? <b>This quest for malcontents is getting really weird around here.</b>
Jeff, I respectfully have to disagree that this is a stretch. This never was about Moochie's comments on Rudy's play-calling -- the only reason anybody would care about what would otherwise be considered standard, canned, post-game comments was Moochie's slip: "WHETHER THE TEAMMATES DON'T LIKE IT, it's just my job to go out there and believe in the system Rudy has laid out there for us." Obviously someone is unhappy, and though it's an assumption, it's not unreasonable to think Francis is among the malcontents. Since the focus was on play-calling, then the complaint is probably about touches rather than minutes. And since the main change in the SA game was Yao getting more touches, then the complaint is that Yao is taking away touches from someone else. So who was the guy whose shots fell the most this game from their season per-game average? Francis, who lost more than 6 shots, from 18.4 to 12. Other guys fell too (Rice, Taylor, Thomas, Griffin), but in absolute numbers, Francis fell the most. And remember, the key question was if Francis is among those who are unhappy with the team's new direction -- not if he's the sole malcontent. Some other quotes from other threads that suggest this isn't just wild conjecture: Originally posted by Sir Jackie Chiles: Did anyone watch the video they have on rockets.com - that interview with Steve before the game? He was asked if he shouldn't try to get the ball more to Yao in the Spurs game and he said, well, this is not about getting the ball to one guy or something like that. Like Yao was just equal to all the other guys. He also kind of didn't seem to care too much that Yao was limited to only 3 shots against Sacramento and then he went on saying "we probably have to help him against San Antonio". He didn't look too happy to me. Originally posted by JLB: It was Moochie from what I can remember was the primary ball handle in the 4th quarter. I recall about three minutes to go Francis was yelling for the ball from Mooch and Mooch didn't pay him no mind. He dribbled a few times and dumped it down to Yao. Yao turned and nailed the shoot. Steve seemed a little frustrated at the end. Originally posted by heech: Well... those of you who saw the game... after Yao's follow-jam with 3 min left in the 4th, which set the crowd off and got Moochie bumpin' into his chest ... as the rest of the team went off celebrating onto the bench, you could see Francis stlil sittin' on his butt on the sidelines (after getting knocked down on the drive that led to the follow)... and instead of celebrating the potential game-winning (not to mention spectacular) shot Yao made, he just looked frustrated, played with his mouthpiece, and smacked his hands together. Maybe everyone is just grasping for some controversy. But the fact is Mooch himself said some guys are unhappy with the game plan. And so far you can't really disprove that Francis is one of them, other than by mentioning a few of his comments that smack of forced, obligatory civility. Remember that Steve's status as being the annointed team leader is being threatened. And remember that Steve very much has the potential for being selfish and self-absorbed -- just recall the path by which he arrived in Houston. Well, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Seriously though, thinking about trading an unhappy Francis is obviously premature. But no more premature than suggesting that those of us who are simply trying to determine if he's unhappy in the first place already want to ship him out of here. I think a good case can be made that he's not exactly pleased with the way things are going. The key question: is this a temporary problem (i.e., will he get over it)? Or will he continue to resist the team's new direction? Of course you have to wonder how we'd handle that situation if it does come. The worst-case scenario is Francis forcing our hand if he is chronically unhappy -- something he's done to another team before. But I'm hopeful that Rudy can successfully mediate this situation, given his reputation as a player's coach. Then again, I can remember a couple of instances where a clash of ego's didn't end happilly: Maxwell and Clyde, Clyde and Barkley. Anyway, I guess by now I am guilty of over-analyzing this whole thing.
Hamachi, Did you watch that rockets.com video that SJC totally spun his own way? You can go watch it...it is still there? Francis is praising Dallas for playing team ball and talking about getting everyone involved and flat out said, "we have to be more consious giving him the basketball, but we have to also play together as a team." I don't get how you can read that as a malcontent. Isn't that exactly what Yao believes??? you are saying that Francis numbers fell, so he must be a malcontent. Did you notice that Moochie's numbers went way up, so maybe Moochie looking for his shot and driving (and just getting minutes) is what some of his teammates don't necessary like, just like the whole BBS doesn't like. How many times did we see Moochie drive all the way. I counted 5. It was same hold Moochie (but more decisive and productive), and I seriously believe that is what some of his teammates don't like, the ball being in Moochie's hands so much. The Chronicle mentioned Rice, Cat and Maurice beaming at Yao after the slam and subsequent timeout, as he came back to the bench. Those are malcontents. Kenny was sitting on the floor behind the baseline and jumped up, and that guy never shows any emotion. <blockquote><hr>But the fact is Mooch himself said some guys are unhappy with the game plan. <hr></blockquote> Moochie did not say that. He said, "Go out and make sure we get a play executed, get a shot. WHETHER THE TEAMMATES DON'T LIKE IT." followed by quotes in the lockerroom about, "<b>this is what you're going to see for the rest of the year--me [moochie] just playing my normal game, just like last year.</b>" Sounds like the little dribbler routine to me, which indeed remains in the offense, as we saw last night. You really so sure that quote means teammates don't like the new moochie running a new offense, especially considering he has seriously sucked until recently. Reason dictates when a person paraphrases something the coach told him earlier that add his take on what his teammates have thought about it, that that person is discussing more than just this game....that sounds like a historical comment to me. Moochie was playing miserable until just recently, and Rudy said he was trying to keep his head up. no?? You think it is fresh news that just recently Moochie is doing new things his teammates dislike...Moochie has sucked....and what new did Moochie do that Francis didn't in this game anyhow...I saw Francis work with Yao splendidly. Francis had a tough time with breaking the press. That was the turnovers, together with a dribble out of bouds TO by Taylor trying to take on Duncan. SF wasn't going ISO in the 3rd. My interpretation is what does Moochie playing just like last year, and his teammates maybe not liking it, have to do with Francis being jeaolous of Yao.
All this malcontent stuff is speculative. Maybe Rudy told Mooch that he wanted him to get his shot more and not try so hard to get it inside to the PF/SF. Mooch might have said to Rudy that it might upset some of the guys when they didn't even know about it. I read that into it more than anything. That's just Mooch thinking playmake as opposed to taking more shots himself. As far as Francis not being happy with less shots, he can take as many as he wants. If wants to jack up 24 on any given night he easily could despite what Rudy wants. He is lowering his shots to involve the others. He just got back several weapons: Yao Ming (adjusting), MT (5 game), TMo (IR), Rice (off-on still), KT (thumb), Mooch (finger). The guy wants to win and I remember him saying he knew his shots and points would go down and that that would be a positive sign for the team...
Agree. But, for the record, if there is a hidden message to a teammate, it was probably directed toward K.T. He's the only one that accepts the ball with the idea that it's his to shoot regardless of who (Ming?) is open.
heyp, I did watch the clip, and you're right -- that, and most of these other examples of discontent can be spun in any way to support an argument. The evidence isn't conclusive, but it's still an interesting exercise to conjecture -- and I don't think it's any more far-fetched to suspect Francis being pissy about the new situation as it is to assume Moochie is justifying his little-dribbler routine. I'm not trying to dig up dirt just for the purpose of assaulting Francis. If Francis doesn't care about the attention shifting to Ming, than of course I'd be pleased. If Moochie is just trying to defend his dribbling rituals, then of course that would suck. It's not like I have some irrational distaste for either of these guys, or some man crush on Yao. But it's not clear really who is unhappy, and what they're actually unhappy about. The point is, I don't think you can dismiss the concerns about Francis so easily. And the reality is, I'm sure Francis can't be totally embracing the idea of Yao as an offensive focal point. That's perfectly normal. I'm sure this stuff will work itself out -- we all know that winning has a way of doing that. But I think there are still some definite risks and possibilities of things turning out for the worse -- hopefully those chances are as small as we're thinking them to be.
IMHO...this has all to do with the power forward slot and the minutes....no one is stepping up right now and you can see it on their faces...not happy campers with the minutes..... some of it is the players not playing well and some of is the players want more minutes....watch KT, MoT and Grffin on the bench next game... it will all come together though soon. as we win, players will figure it out and if not, there will be a move made.....all will be taken care of with time..
Taken!!!!! there is definitely something brewing though....it could be frustration because no PF is really stepping up or minutes or a combination....MOT plays 12 and sits most of the second half.... These players have no idea what will happen on a nightly basis.....something has to give...someone freakin step up please...
Let just said if the Rockets play well and win the game, any players who put the team first should be happy with the result. This is a team game and we all know wh the U.S. team didn't do too well in the World Championship game. I don't think SF was jealous because Yao was doing well or Yao took his spotlight away. I think he is happy that the team won but kind of dissappoint at himself with all those turnover that allow ther Spur to get back in the game. I don't think he is unhappy with his role but he just wish that he can contribute more to the team. Being a leader that he wanted to be, I think Steve want to performed at the highest level to set example for his teammates. So, if there is any notion that Steve is unhappy, it's mainly because of his expectation of himself and not jealous of his teammates who perform well. If Steve indeed was unhappy because Yao grap the spotlight, then he is definitely do not know how to be a leader. Selfish and jealousy can only lead to destruction. By saying that, again i do not think Steve is that type of a person. He is genuinely want to lead this team. There is nothing that Steve said or act publicly that point to the idea that he is jealous with Yao. I remember Steve once said that he look to Yao as a big brother even though Yao is younger than him. So, I think we should stop speculating or read into thing that might lead to division of this team. Just glad that we have two talented players that hopefully will lead us to become the champion of the world.
