so then who does it have to do with, unless you're implying that all your beliefs are correct and set the standard by which mankind should live by. I don't think I'm a bigot, so I don't see any point in answering this question.
I think that because you equate child rape with homosexuality. You're either bigoted toward homosexuals or you think child rape's a-ok. Either way, you're messed up. You don't like me calling it bigotry because you don't think there's anything wrong with being anti-gay. That's cool. It wasn't long ago people felt that way about hate and discrimination toward blacks, Asians and other races. Thankfully that has changed and racial bigots are ostracized. The same is happening with bigotry toward gays, just a little slower. As I said above, I really am hoping you'll realize that this bigotry is no more acceptable than bigotry against someone for the color of their skin. But until that day comes, you are a bigot and you should be called one.
So everyone should think like you or we are bigots? BTW, I wouldnt use that skin color bigotry analogy if I were you. You're insulting ALOT of minorities out there who don't agree with that analogy.
Surprisingly, Batman is still bothering to respond to your posts, hotballa - so I'll let him deal with the rest of this thread. I'm not about to play this game - we're all adults here (I think) and its obvious to anybody what you're trying to imply. Bigot.
I'm a little lost. I don't see any game that we seem to be playing. We're merely having a discussion without any yelling. We need ot be open minded about those who are different than us
Anyway what I was getting at was that if someone is a racist, they're a racist no matter what time period right? that you feel its a deviance of some sort for someone to be like that. My question and point is that this is the exact same argument that has been used about homosexuality for years, that i'ts unnatural and just isn't right. Thats the only argument I've heard so far from you guys calling me a bigot, because being against homosexuals is unnatural and a deviance of some sort no matter what time period I'm in.
I like Chocolate . . is that hard wired too? I'm a firm beleiver in nature over nuture If homosexuality is a 'Natural thing' the closest would be a mutation .. . which is *not* flattering I say what because mutations general do not reproduce themselves and they are RARE Heterosexuality is link the to natural in that it is for the furthering of the species. . . . Homosexuality serves no such purpose ALmost all the natural things serve a purpose While you may say like sex it is fun . . .and enjoyable that is not the purpose of sex. . it is a side benefit sex #1 purpose is to lead to child bearing ANY sex that does not do that . . is UN Natural i.e. sex with condoms, oral sex, anal sex, Rocket River
IF they started killing for for liking chocolate tomorrow. . . doesn't mean they will stop liking chocolate. . they may stop eating it. . and sneak it when they can Does that make liking chocolate a genetic thing? Look at smoking. . . folx still smoke and folx HATE smokers to the point it is becoming a pariah What about druggies? Rocket River
that is not the issue he is bringing up He is saying it is a preference You are saying it is genetic Why is it genetic? What makes one preference and one genetic? That is the big Question The morality of one versus another . . that doesn't fly Rocket River
But what about Nazi's? Huh? They choose to be Nazi's, just like Homosexuals, right? THey must be the same!
Both practices, pedophilia and homosexuality, were common in ancient times in the east and west. The difference now is that one is considered normal from empirical evidence while the other is still morally repulsive. Arranged marriages in the teens were culturally accepted and in ancient Greek, Roman and Japanese cultures a homosexual relationship was considered the greatest bond between friends. Though most of the men in those relationships had families and assume masculine roles. This doesn't explain the "100% homosexuals" or whatever black and white issue is being discussed. Those in the minority who think they are in the absolute are on the statistical outliers or have encountered some emotional trauma, such as rape or molestation in their youths, that have corrupted their definition of a functional relationship, which then alters their sexual bearings. So what it means is that there are varying degrees within all of us and I doubt many people are a 100% gay or straight when given some genuinely honest introspection. Just like some posters in the Hangout who didn't mind going crazy over a "barely illegal" Lohan, Portman, Olsen Twins, or Duff in the years past... To further your off-topic point about pedophiles, I doubt there will be any conclusive studies focused upon genetics and pedophilia compared to homosexuality because no one wants to justify these acts. Yet, with wildly varying age limits across borders, a growth in earlier puberty rates, and the relative mental immaturity of the consumer population, defining who is a consenting or mature mind is several degrees harder than determining who is abolutely gay or straight.
Thank you. This was the kind of response I had hoped to get rather than just calling me a bigot. Also wanted to expand on what you said about the Romans. If i'm correct, I believe it was common custom for young boys who just hit puberty or were pre-puberty to have a homosexual relationship with a much older man, and that in some cases the family of the boy would actually find a suitable match.
No, it isn't. You didn't hope to have a reasoned conversation about the history of pedophilia. You hoped to marry homosexuality to kid rape in order to make the point that homosexuals were gross deviants. If you don't like being called a bigot maybe you should closet your bigoted tendencies.
I thought you were supposed to be the open minded guy here. All it looks like is you're itching for a fight, and totally closed to other people's opinions. Now that I think about it, your reaction to any opinion you consider different from yours sounds exactly like texx.
I don't know where you got that impression about me. I am open minded about a lot of things, but when it comes to bigotry -- be it racist or homophobic -- I don't have an open mind at all. I think it's evil bull****. And you're right. I am itching for a fight when it comes to this. I wouldn't have any problem at all busting a racist in the grill if they expressed their racism with the same kind of smirky pride you express yours against gays and lesbians and I don't see any difference at all between you and them. I think the KKK is the bottom of the barrel. And you're keeping them company. Sorry, pal. My tolerance doesn't extend to the enthusiastically intolerant.
first I'm smirky, then I'm enthusiastic? I didnt know it was possible to be both. Isnt smirky by definition a low key type thing and enthusiastic is over the top display? Well it's good to know you're looking to fight people who don't agree with you, the world could always use more of that attitude.
As it was in the 60's, during the last major civil rights movement, yes you're exactly right. The world could use more people like me where this sort of thing is concerned. And, as it was with the racists that were still bold enough to proudly announce their racism back then, we could use a lot less of people like you. I maintain my stance though that you are probably a reasonable enough guy that just happens to have been misguided by his upbringing or whatever else. And I continue to hold out hope that you'll eventually regret your hate speech here. I don't actually blame you for falling into this whole thing. I'm 36 years old so I've seen attitudes towards homosexuality change radically in my lifetime. I was raised believing the most horrible thing you could be was a "f*****." But while attitudes have changed tremendously there are still problems. Even in the GARM today, in the thread that claimed T-Mac's problem was that his girlfriend might have cheated, someone said it could have been worse, he could have been coming out of the closet. So these bigoted attitudes toward homosexuality still exist in the mainstream, as they did toward blacks long after it was officially unacceptable. This will change and is changing. That's a fact. It's even more irrelevant to debate this than most of the things that get debated here because it's already a done deal that this will change. My only interest in you, in the face of that, is whether you will ultimately issue apologies for your previously bigoted behavior, disappear into the woodwork as a lot of racists did back when racism went from a cause to an embarassment or whether you actually feel so strongly that you'll wind up joining a KKK-style anti-*** group (and trust me, they're coming -- any minute now, they're coming -- that's what happens). In the meantime, live it up. Gay bashing is still a marginally accepted practice, depending on where you live. But get your shots in now. Any minute your kind of hate will be exposed for the plain bigotry it is. That day can't come soon enough.
Like I said before, a lot of civil rights leaders disagree with this analogy of comparing the fight for racial equality to the gay rights movement. You know the difference between racial equality and the gay movement? Minorities have to say "I'm black and proud of it" because everyone can see that they're black, for the most part. Gay people on the other hand have to declare their bedroom preferences. Why is there even a gay pride month or a gay parade, or even organizations that chant "we're here, we're queer". Do we really need to know what you do in the bedroom? How can anyone say that gays are just like us when they work so hard at making sure we know just how proud they are of being different. Minorities don't have to work hard at letting people know they're different, gays do. I grew up in an environment where the worst thing you could be was someone who said something bad about homosexuals. I saw the post you're talking about. I initially thought maybe the poster meant it was bad for TMac, that the problems he would face coming out of the closet would make it difficult for him and his career. you sound exactly like your right wing counterparts in your way of dealing with this kind of issue. Just because you feel very strongly about something doesn't mean you're right on it. For instance, your counterparts on the extreme right feel that its ok for Bush to eavesdrop on us all in the name of security and will call you a moron for thinking otherwise. The KKK thing is taking things kind of far. I believe in free speech, so did Martin Luther King, so does George Bush (presumably). Does that make us three the same? Sharing one ideology with another group doesn't make you part of that group. Everyone has many many different opinions on many different matters. I live in New York. The city council speaker is an open lesbian. I disagree with their lifestyle, I do not condone any sort of physical violence to them or any laws specifically made to harm them in some manner.
batman -- i think you may be making some huge assumptions about hotballa that aren't really supported by what he was asking. is pedophilia a sexual preference or is it something else? maybe that's the place to start. i remember a legit medical journal back in the mid-90's say that sexual attraction to children was definitely hard-wired in. i'm not sure if i believe that or not, and i find it grossly offensive, but it's certainly been stated. you know where i am on homosexuality. EVERYONE deserves to be treated with respect. everyone. but that doesn't mean i have to agree or validate every decision you make. i don't think practicing homosexuality is right, but I realize my belief in that comes from my belief in a God that many don't believe in. that's fine. when it comes to policy, i don't want it to be discriminatory at all. my ideal would be for govt to get out of the business of marriage altogether. any two persons can get a civil union through the government...churches/synagogues/mosques/other can do whatever they wish in that regard as well. i don't know whether it's genetic or choice, frankly. i don't know. i think environment has a huge impact, one way or the other. we see that in what's deemed sexy from generation to generation...in the 20th century, the ideal female form seemed to change every 10 years, for example. i think most of what i deem to be sexy comes from what I saw from the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition as a kid. i can't speak for other's experiences....though i will say the friends i've known throughout my lifetime who are homosexual had very similar family situations. But I'm not necessarily willing to extrapolate that out to everyone in the world who is or claims to be homosexual. i suppose i'm somewhat concerned with the idea that if we're hard-wired for things that we might make excuses for personal responsibility. I'm far less concerned with that, as a practical matter, with homosexuality than I am with other things. Like alcoholism...or pedophilia...or whatever else. But if culture maps science to say that the only reason I took action X is because I"m hard-wired for it, and really have no choice...I think that's a dangerous place to go.