If I read you correctly, you would say that they are not focusing on the right things? Do you have any evidence or is this just because you do not want to believe it happened? Would it change your opinion about him if it was in some way proven that it happened? I don't mind. While I do disagree with you on some issues and am downright startled by some of your positions and do think that your stance on the Danish cartoonist is despicable (hoping that he lives in fear for the rest of his life) and I would hope that you revert it at some point, I do appreciate that you take the time to answer and discuss, and I feel that you are for the larger part of your posts genuine in what you post, meaning that you are not just posting stupid attacks like some other posters, but actually try to discuss the issues and give your honest assessment (even though I think it often sounds crazy).
He never directly conversed with God (except for once), there was an intermediary named Jibreel (Gabriel) who is an angel. He brought down the verses from God and spoke them to Mohammed who then recited them to people who either wrote down the verses or memorized them.
To be honest, I think it's not Mohammed being drawn that pisses Muslims off, but rather the content of the drawing. For example, the Danish cartoons had the Prophet posing with a turban made out of a bomb and something about 72 virgins. That was offensive. If someone drew your mom like that or in a similar insulting manner, would you tolerate it? I know I wouldn't. And for us the Prophet is the holiest human that has ever walked the earth, so to depict him in such a manner would obviously tick ppl off. On the other hand, if the cartoonist had just drawn Mohammed, like a regular guy with an arab dress, I am 100% sure it would not have pissed the Muslims off like the Danish cartoons did. It would have been considered wrong but it wouldn't have received the nearly the same reaction from the Muslims.
1) Yes, I think the focus has shifted back to pre-Islamic values of reputation, reputation, reputation. Long story short, it's about whether your beard is long enough, your kandora short enough, and your prayers noticeable enough. I guess this is true of all religions to an extent. 2) There's no evidence proving it happened. It would, once again, lead me to question my religion if it was proven to be true. I don't remember if I mentioned - it was a major sticking point for me in the past. 3) You're right, I am pretty crazy. FWIW, I don't like that I can't seem to forgive the cartoonist and I don't think God likes it either.
That one time, is it the Israa w Miraaj? Because scholars are still not in agreement about whether Israa w Miraaj was a physical or spiritual journey or a dream.
I think it is interesting that you write that. That is what I meant to criticize when I wrote that "public prayer" post (actually not only about Islam). It seems that you seem to view overly ostentative prayer with a bit of a critical eye as well? I did not know that it was a sticking point for you, and that you questioned your religion. It seems like most historical commentators agree that it happened, at least Wikipedia and some other sources seem to confirm it. Some "excuse" it by pointing out that it seemed to be very commonplace at the time. I appreciate your ability to self-reflect. Nobody is perfect, but I think having that ability at all is a very good prerequisite to becoming a better person and to finding better answers.
In my uninformed opinion, Islam is a relatively young religion. I think what we see represented in much of the discussions with our resident Muslims is the future of Islam as it evolves and grows into the modern world. Much like the Christian religion had to evolve and move away from the egregious Medieval atrocities, I believe we are seeing the same with Islam. Here's to a future where we are all brothers and sisters in peace. edit: this is not to say that any religion is past the capacity for ongoing "badness"
Hmm, well from what I know every prominent scholar (Sunni, at least) has agreed that it was an actual physical journey. I think there are explanations in translated version of the Quran that prove it was an actual journey and he actually lead the other Prophet's in prayer. (Man, those translations are confusing if you read them without the explanations). And just out of curiosity, why do you think 90% of the ahadith are not authentic? I've only come across one other person who rejected the Sunnah flat out and he claimed to be a "Quraaniyyah"
The majority do believe Muhammed married Aisha(the young bride) but that is viewed as what was permissible and the norm back then in those times. Another example is that the Prophet had about 11 wives but it is clearly stated that Muslims can have up to 4 wives given that they are treated equally. Of course, almost all Muslims have the normal 1 wife because that is what the norm is nowadays. Also, there is much debate about whether Muslims can deal with interest/finance because it is forbidden in the Quran but is very much the norm nowadays so many Muslims are confused as to whether they should engage in it or not. Basically, Islam relies very much on interpretation and unfortunately, radicals interpret it in a very extreme manner. If I don't make any sense or can't answer most of people's questions(which I probably can't), it's because I don't have extensive knowledge or know every aspect of Islam as I am still young and haven't seeked greater knowledge yet. I do have access to many people who are very educated about Islam and ny questions anyone may have, I can ask someone who has greater knowledge then I and can relay back their response.
To put it bluntly, Islam is believed to be the final perfected form of an idea (monotheism) since the beginning of man (Adam/Eve). According to the Quran, there were several thousand prophets that preached this message but over time due to whatever reason (possibly intended by God) the message got distorted and you have the mess today. Jesus, Moses, Noah, Abraham are all considered "muslim" (this is up for debate but here Muslim refers to one who 'submits' to this idea of God) even though they weren't called that in their time. Islam (as in the Quran only, not the hadiths though there might be a handful of insights to be found in them - according to my college professors) is like software. Judaism was v1, Christianity v2, and it's the final one. For you to say it 'borrowed' from other religions is correct since the source code is the same. In order to be the final form, it has to share common ideas with the other religions that it supposedly fixes.
1) I actually meant to imply IN a mosque for friday prayers. It's become more a matter of "if I don't go to the mosque, they will notice." That's not everyone. But obviously, if I felt that someone is praying publicly to shove prayer down someone else's throat, I wouldn't like it very much. Then again, given the Muslim mode of praying, I would never be able to differentiate, nor would my judgement really matter. I've never run into Muslims who pray publicly to market their religion to non-Muslims. 2) Personally, I can't excuse it. If I was going to believe the historians, I would believe the Hadith. You have to be aware of one pre-Islamic custom/value: the younger your wife, the better. It was commonplace to boast about your wife's youth, with no limits. This is important to keep in mind because the writers of the time would be very inclined, IMO, to ensure that the Prophet's wife was a trophy wife and by their standards, a 12 yr old is a trophy wife. Nevertheless, Mohammed PBUH is not infallible. 3) Thanks!
Than wouldn't that make the whole writing false about Mohammad as a false prophet? It's taking something and fabricating your it into your own. He sounds pretty interesting so far on Wiki so I'll check him out.
Yeah, they are confusing. Because they are bound to be flawed, the Prophet said not to write them unless directly from his mouth (that's a hadith btw), they contradict each other and they contradict the Quran. I think you meant "Quraaniyyoon"? In any case, I'm not one of them. Those are the people who believe in the number 19 "miracle" right? I don't completely reject hadith. If a hadith is mutawatir, sahih, is reported in multiple books with essentially no variation, is not from Abu Huraira, and does not break ANY Quranic rule/law... then I would accept the moral of that hadith. For example, am I to believe this: or Those scholars don't tell you the messed up stuff. They just tell you about the really peaceful and fun stuff in hadith. Here's a nice one they hate hearing about:
Well I am in nowhere near knowledgeable enough to refute or agree to any of that. Any judgment I make is done after reading commentary on a hadith by different renowned scholars since they do know Islam the best these days. That being said, I do consider myself to be Ahl al Hadith because the Quran itself says to follow the Prophet and his teachings (sayings/actions = ahadith). So to reject an authentic hadith of the Prophet would be like rejecting a verse from the Quran, no?
Considered wrong Islamically. Drawing Jesus or even God would be considered wrong. Even drawing a picture with eyes is considered wrong in Islam but it's only frowned upon. It's not such a bad thing that would elicit a violent reaction from these over zealous people who think getting angry is a sign of their piety.
Hmm I'm confused by your grammar, but I think you're saying that, whatever I said confirms whatever you've read as Muhammad being a false-prophet as true, and that's definitely not what I'm saying. I said he confirms and corrects a lot of past Abrahamic-faith beliefs, and then this confirming/correcting is what is branded as Islam. It's not plagiarizing or fabricating when you clearly state your message builds (and supposedly perfects) upon a certain theme that past ideas have also used. I don't think you and I have same definition or knowledge about what people say constitutes a false prophet since my professor's software analogy usually works for most people on the topic of Muhammad. Perhaps Muslim posters like Mathloom or Qazi can enlighten you more on their faith?
