Heypartner, I'm going to have to agree with Moe on this one. The reason you trade Mad Max is because of the Mad. Unfortunately, most people don't change. If someone has been known for causing trouble then they will cause trouble again. If someone had come to me in 90,91, and 92 and offered something substantial for Max then I would have taken it because you know he's a ticking time bomb. Better he blow up in someone else's face as far as I am concerned. As for Mobley, I think he has two things going for him that Max never had. 1. He is a solid citizen. Rudy proved in 1993-94 that character and chemistry do matter. Mobley is a plus in this area as opposed to Max who we all know about. 2. I am very impressed with the way that he worked in the offseason. The coaching staff had to force him to leave the gym. You have to love a guy like that. On this basis alone I am willing to keep him. If the coaching staff will keep on him and tell him what to work on (passing, passing, passing) then he will be a star. Incidentally though, if this guy is an abundant talent like Hakeem, MJ, and the like then why was he picked in the second round. I know that was a caricature and not a comparison, but still, what was it that made teams pass on him in college? I remember him getting the Defensive Player of the Year in the Conference. What gives? ------------------ Rockets When? Rockets When?
Interesting question, heypartner. Here's my answer. I've generally subscribed to the theory that when you've got a hot property who will soon cost more money or cause more problems than he's worth, you should see what you can get for him. So I would have been for trading Maxwell back in 1990-92. In my best-case scenario, the Rockets would have won the championship within a year or two after trading Max. Of course, we know what happened. They kept him, and they won the championship. And even when he flamed out as we had feared in 1995, he didn't keep us from winning a second championship. Therefore, unless we could have won three championships by trading Max -- a virtual impossibility -- keeping him was the right move. The lesson I draw from this is to preserve some humility about trades. You always know what's wrong with the guy you have. You never know as much about what's wrong with the guy you're trading for. And often you're better off taking a chance on the guy you have. So I'd keep Cuttino. I agree that in addition to his physical talents, he brings the rarest game-winning quality in the NBA today: self-motivation and determination. And I have an additional reason to be humble about trading him. I was for cashing him in during the offseason. I said we should keep Dickerson and trade Mobley because Mobley had hit his ceiling. Oops. I'm still waiting for him to hit his ceiling. Let me know when it happens. Until then, I'm going to shut up and enjoy watching him play for the Rockets.
Barzilla, Will thx just for the fun of it...does anyone recall trade offers for Maxwell while we were suffering through those 50% seasons in 90-92. Barzilla...I think the answer to why Mobley lasted so long...but is certainly now within the top 5 or 10 of his class (conservatively speaking)...is a tribute to how rare drive/determination and the willingness to learn is in this league. He is the fastest improving player around, beginning with the summer he got drafted.
Heypartner, No kidding, I never thought Mobley would go from 9 points a game to 15. It's just amazing that something like that could slip through. It just goes to show how we do our homework. ------------------ Rockets When? Rockets When?
You can also flip the question the other way and ask in retrospect why some players were drafted early and failed to live up to the advance billing. Elden Campbell was still available when Duane Causwell was drafted in 1990. It is very interesting to flip through the lists of first round draft choices over the past 20 years and see how various players have progressed in their careers. Mango
HP: Thanks for the shout-out, sorry I am late on the draw. I can not remember any trade rumors for VMax - do you recall? I would love to know. Personally, I think Vernon is way better than Cuttino, and I know i will be in a minority here. Mobley is terrific at times, but Vernon - and this is backed up by many Rockets and assistant coaches and trainers - was/is a totally unique and remarkabel specimen. From a physical standpoint, he is a tremndous leaper, and many who have played with him compare him - physically speaking - to Jordan. Well, Jordan who pounded a six pack after practice and drank fifths of Remy V.S.O.P on nights before games. For those who remember, Maxwell was crazy - not enthusiastic, not ebullient, but straight up nuts. Mobley is not crazy at all, and while he does not have the downside Vernon did, he does not have all the upside either. 33 pooints in the second half of Game 3 of 1995 playoffs when we were down 2-0 to phoenix? That is crazy. Flustering MJ and kicking some 3peat-era Chicago ass? Legendary. I do not put Cuttino in this category, at least not yet. 15 pts per game is not Vernon material. At least not yet. I prefer to comapre Mobley to John Lucas - good listener, good spirit, good player. BUT his position may already be filled by Shandon Anderson; we have to balance. The reason you do not trade Vernon in 1991 or whenever, is that we needed him. He was nuts, but he was the perfect complement to the straight laced Hakeem, Kenny and Otis. We needed a lunatic sniper in the backcourt badly, which is wy he was indespensable. It's like Mario with the Spurs last year - he fit in. He no longer fit in with the Rockets, but he was a great fit with SA. I am not sure Mobley is such a great fit, just because of the mutual commitment between the Rockets and Anderson. And remember, Maxwell, for all of his Rocketness, became expendable- dead weight even- once Clyde took over. So Mobley is not untouchable, of course, but he is not simply tradebait either. We are gonna need an offensive threat up front, and it is not looking like Cato will be that threat. So. . .do not trade Mobley for Hughes, Wells, etc. If you can score Nowitzki, however, do it in a second. Good night, the Euro is frigging menace on offense from the 4 position. How many guys do that? CbrownFanClub ps. ammendment - if someone puts together a Mobley for Maxwell deal, you do it just for old times sake. pps. we have missed vernon every second of post-championship rocketball. we would have beat utah in 1996 with Vmax.
Almu, I agree with you also. I think people in here just want something to talk about, besides our losing season so far. Moe, as a matter of fact, Kareem did win a championship in his early years, I think it was either his second or first year. Sorry, can't remember. Also, Hakeem brought his team to the championships his second season.
Cbrownfanclub, I will agree that Max was more potent, but Mobley is definetely a more consistent scorer. Max never averaged over 17 points a game for his entire career, and by the time we got into the championship years he was in 12-14 range. If we're going to remember the good Max we also have to remember the bad Max. For every 33 point performance he would have a 5. The thing that frustrated me with Kenny and Max is that by the time we had gotten into the title years they could collectively disappear. Maybe that was a function of Rudy's offense because they both played better for Don Chaney. ------------------ Rockets When? Rockets When?
these old threads are how I mark time...and not just mine...but others too, like the best of all time in Nov 1999 by CBFC after Clutch's infamous "Trade Dream or Barkley Now" like that is not waaaay toooo late....CBrownFanClub wrote in his 10th post...."Great time to be a Rockets Fan...No Kidding" Boy...go find THAT without the search engine will ya. Glory Be, The Funks On Weee!!!!
ahh the heady days when people (including myself) thought shandn andersn was a good basketball player. to think cuttino was considered the odd man out in that battle at one point. and how about this gem from Dadakota in reference to mobley: "I LOVE THE GUY". man times they are a changing also, i think this quote from Will best sums up how i feel about a lot the trade so and so threads: "You always know what's wrong with the guy you have. You never know as much about what's wrong with the guy you're trading for. And often you're better off taking a chance on the guy you have."
maybe there is some Jerry Stackhouse in him (or David Wesley) one day the light bulb may go on they are pretty similar players (before this season) but I think Mobes could have a problem taking on a lesser role on the team. perhaps Mobley is more concerned with being the best backcourt in the league, instead of the best team
This is guy who took a paycut to stay with the Rockets and played behind Shandon "I can't dribble the ball and shoot but deserve millions of dollars" Anderson without ever complaining. Cat is definitely a team player, he just has low basketball IQ.
I still love Mobley, I just expect more of him and Francis. I would rather keep Mobley and draft Ming. However, if we were offered Odom for Mobley, I would have to consider it. I love his heart and passion for the game, but the rocks desperatly need big talented players. I think Ming fills all of our needs and we can fill the SF position with a good pickup at number 15....or keep Langhi. DaDakota
