Thacabbage, thanks for clarifying (watching my back). I am not disillusioned in thinking Drew could be the meat of the deal for T-Mac. But Mobley, well, maybe (because Drew wouldn't be enough is why I brought up Mobes). There is a very short list of 1st or 2nd year guards with his combination of versitility, skill and potential. He might be able to be the meat of a deal for T-Mac with something like KT or CR and/or a pick in there. While KT and Rogers have potential to be solid NBA players, T-Mac is in a different league in terms of the potential impact he can have on the floor. I don't think just having 3 great guards will be enough. I think Cato is just fine as a defensive presence at the 4/5, but we will need a forward to create match-up problems for other teams, not to mention a guy to play tough on the Garnett's, Adur-Rahim's and the like (when we can't possible be effective playing small ball). We will need balance, and it is my opinion that the youth on our roster in the #3-#5 positions probably is not there to balance out a future championship contender. Believe me, at sometime we will need a bigger guy who puts a ton of pressure on our opponents, a guy to make them react, I don't see that young guy on our team. If we don't want to trade Mobes that is fine. But then we should move Drew for what we can. This gets us out of the T-Mac, Jamison, and Grant league for sure, but we might be able to get something. I'd take a mid to mid-late draft pick or try to get somebody like Donyell for him and Walt, that is all I am saying.
You brought up a good point about T-Mac. He is a good versatile forward who I see as having the ability to create matchup problems. He would certainly help against Rahim. BTW: What is your fascination with Donyell Marshall?! Garbage.
What would you all think of trading Drew to move up in the draft when the time comes? We could then use Mobley in the same manner we used Kevin Willis during his stint here: sub Mobley in for Francis at the one and then bring back Francis at the one and shift Mobes to the off guard. This way we can go after one of the good forwards in the draft this year (Morris, Johnson, Porter, Mottola, Martin or Mihm) without giving up Mobley
We don't "have" to trade anybody. But we do have a lot of good young guards, and not much in terms of bigger people with much of an offensive game and potential. (Sorry, Cato is still primarily a defensive player and KT has a long way to go to be a consistent offensive performer in this league). I would not let Mobley go cheaply, but teams wouldn't let McGrady, Jamison or Grant go cheaply either. I woundn't think of trading Mobley for a lesser caliber player unless we got a very good first round draft pick as well. I really don't see a long term future for both Mobley and Drew, that is if Drew becomes a consistent good player. 3 outstanding guards yes (you can keep happy and pay them what you need), 4 is too many. We can try to trade Drew for a lesser forward (say with Walt for Donyell Marshall) or a decent pick (mid or mid-late 1st round pick), I am fine with that too.
UT Baller, I think that is a novel idea, however, I don't think just Bryce would be enough to move up in the draft very much, if at all. We would have to throw in something else, Bryce and our pick, Bryce and Walt, something else. But regardless, I think Drew is the most expendable at this point, if we are talking about our backcourt. Can't imagine getting rid of Mobley or Anderson. Plus, Anderson really bit the bullet to play for us. He took less than half of what Utah offered him to come here. Loyalty.....hard to find! I know he wanted to get the hell outta Utah too!!!
For the record, I'm all for giving up one of our guards to beef up one our frontcourt. In fact, that would be the ideal situation, in my opinion. And Drew looks like the odd man out, for all the reasons we've discussed ad nauseum. But when you look at realistic trade talks, I think it stands to reason to consider that other people have brains, too. Good trades are mutually beneficial to both teams... It's important to think not just about what we would give up to get the next player on our wish list, but what the team we're hoping to trade with would accept in exchange for that player that they know has inherent value... Only in rare cases are teams really forced to dump a player, and 90% of the time that's for off-the-court antics. (a la Quitten) So lets talk about what we've got. Drew would be an excellent addition to a team that has a so-so starting point guard, because he produces the best when gets more playing time. Francis, Anderson, and Mobley make an excellent three guard rotation, with youth, diversity, and chemistry. At forward, Kenny Thomas and Kelvin Cato are both keepers. Down the line, they may evolve into our starting 4 and 5 position. Or, even better, a very good three man rotation at forward with a more quality pforward/center. Wizard is an NBA nomad, and because of his rough start, and recent resurgance, gets the obvious attention as trade bait. Bull isn't likely to go anywhere, because, as heypartner has pointed out, he knows Rudyball the best, and has been playing well this season. He's getting older, and probably won't be around too much longer, but plan on him sticking around. Carlos Rogers is a great energy player. Good bench material, and the Rockets will probably hold onto him, but technically is expendable if he'll turn the key on a good deal. TMass is an X-factor. He certainly has game. But his injuries have seriously diminished his trade value. If another team recognizes his value at full health, he could be a key part of a trade. On the other hand, if we trade another forward, TMass is good security, because we know he'll be back next season at least. I'm calling Pig a center, cause that's where he seems to be getting his playing time these days. Probably not much value there, and he's overacheiving right now, so we can be happy with things as they are. Which brings us to Hakeem. Value? Probably. Should we do it? I won't touch it right now. Sooooo, if we could keep this core together, and make a trade to get a quality forward, I would be happy: Francis Mobley Anderson Thomas Cato Rogers (?) Most tradable: Drew Wizard TMass Value of most tradable: Questionable So let's just hope that there are more Nellie's out there than we think... ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain -
Actually, not trading Mobley is a key reason not to trade Cato. Just like Francis and Mobes have developed good chemistry on the floor, Cato and Mobley have developed a chemistry of their own... Who do you think feeds Cato on all those dunks? Something else to think about... ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain -
I admit the more Mobley and Francis have games like this together the harder it is for me to want trade him. I absolutely would have a short list in mind even for consideration, with McGrady and Jamison at the top. What about trading Drew to Toronto for their #1 pick and a throw in. That pick would in all likelihood be in the 15-18 range, about where Drew was picked. Then next year we would probably have at least a 15-18 & a 9-12 (and maybe more depending on Orlando, right?). Then we might be in business for getting a 5-7 pick, depending on how the draft unfolds. Other team seemingly in need of a PG are GS (they get the Bullets pick I think, but give up there own), both LA teams, NY, Chi. As far as Marshall, I think he is decent player on a bad team. He has more shooting range than most 4's and rebounds hard and is tall/long for a 3. He is better version of Walt, Bull & Rogers, and we have Walt's stinky contract anyway so I would rather have a guy like Marshall who does more things in his spot. Also, he is only 26 too, 2 years younger than Rogers, yet far more accomplished as a pro. He is a servicable starting forward, or real good guy off the bench--he could do for us like what an improved version of what Fox/Horry does for the Lakers.
Cabbage, as one of "you guys", I completely understand. Trade Mobley for a PW. Answer, are you crazy ? This guy, along with Francis, is if not already, going to be the most explosive backcourt for plenty of years ! These opportuities don't come along very often. Besides, don't you feel the love ? And Drew, yes little, Drew, should be the 3rd option at guard. After all, you've got to have one. Those three have plenty of minutes to go around. I think Bullard is the trade bait, since he is showing his A package on defense. ( he he. ) Package his skinny alabastor fanny with what ever, or just draft and trade this summer. DO NOT touch Mobley,Francis,Rogers,Cato,Anderson. Hey, that a hell of a STARTING lineup, don't cha think ? : )...
Nope, sorry, that is not the kind of balanced team to make it to the promise land in my opinion. Three outstanding young guards is enough, we should at least get rid of Drew in working toward a better young frontcourt. (Either Drew will be oustanding, and we won't be able to pay him enough or give him the minutes he needs, or he won't be good enough to be worth keeping for what we might be able to get for him right now--a mid/late 1st rounder). You can always sign servicable veteran guards to be the 4th & 5th guards off the bench in emergencies.
I would trade Mobley in a heartbeat for either McGrady or Jamison. We need a good young SF to go with the rest of our squad. Yes, Mobley and Francis like each other, but ask yourself this....Would it be harder to trade Mobley in 2 years when Francis' contract is also coming up? Trade Mobley now, if it improves the club, Francis has 4 years to get over the loss. DaDakota
I think a lot of this hinges on Mobley and Francis. Will Mobley be content coming off the bench? If not, should we trade him since we already are committed to Anderson starting? Or should we start Mobley and Anderson at sg and sf, respectively (in which case we will be a little thinner at the guard position and might not want to give up Drew)? What will Francis think about trading Mobley? I think that has to be taken into consideration; it's in our best interest to keep him happy, much like San Antonio keeping Daniels because he and Duncan are buddies. I'm not sure that we ought to make any moves at this moment (unless it's a no-brainer). Let the young guys work together and see what happens. It may be that we could trade one (or more) of our guys and get better talent, but we might do better chemistry wise with the guys we've got. If you can get rid of Walt, that's fine, but I don't really want any of the young guys to go unless it's a perfect deal. I might like to see what would happen with a rotation like this: Center - Hakeem/Cato P. Forward - Thomas/Rogers/Cato S. Forward - Anderson/Rogers S. Guard - Mobley/Anderson P. Guard - Francis/Drew That could be a pretty good eight man rotation (with others added on occasion, as needed). It might not work, but I'd like to see it.
With the way that Mobley and Francis are clicking right now, I think it would send the wrong messege to Francis, if we trade the player his game suites the best. Francis is suppose to be what we are building around, the only guard to get rid of is Drew, not a damn question about it...Anderson is our best deffender along with Cato, and you need to surround Francis with players that can play his game, and the 2 feed of each other, they have been reffered to by teammates as having a brother like relationship. If the Rockets trade Mobley, it could really mess up the Chemistry that the team is currently building, Id rather trade Cato than Mobley, its uncanny the way Mobley and Francis play together, it would be a shame to not atlest let them get another shot next year running together. I say use walt and our pick to try and move up a couple of spots ( depending on how the draft order comes out, and who drafts who) in order to get that front court player we need. [This message has been edited by Shotcaller (edited February 02, 2000).]
