Heypartner let me get this straight with you...im not trying to argue so there is no need to say GET OVER IT. I just wanted to know your opinion of Manu as opposed to saying he is not a star--because what you told CRISCO kid is that he will NOT BE A STAR...but that could mean a lot of things--by saying not a star that could mean he is a 12th man, good sixth man, good role player helping a great team....which is it HP? I just want to know your opinion...Ive said mine several times instead of just saying HES NOT A STAR. I am not trying to fight with you...I am just trying to have a little argument at this point--not trying to say MOVE ON or I ALREADY SAID MY OPINION etc.... Also my opinion is MANU does not have GREAT speed for an NBA SG, but above average for an SG and a great knack for scoring in traffic. The guy is simply fearless when driving to the hoop. Also Ginobili is kind of like Mullin off the ball, except he does not have Mullins range. Manu's release is quick and he is very crafty when moving without the ball--in other words he knows how to use picks well and he can create his own shot. This is the reason I think he can do well for the Spurs (I am not saying he is JESUS or MOSES or whatever). The bottom line is I think the guy is a good player and has some clutch ability to him. I could be proven wrong, but Im not just gonna say "I DONT THINK HE WILL BE A SUPERSTAR" or from my end "HE WILL BE MJ"--I am telling you what I see in him and HOW he will adjust to the NBA...thats all....so far all I heard fom you is that he won't be a STAR--that could mean many things--so please clarify for me fo arguments sake.
HP, I am with you. Anyone that calls you "HP" instead of "heypartner" can't be a newbie. Seriously, on this topic, I still think you are a bit premature in judging Gino. I didn't see the game, so I can't comment on his performance. But don't you think you should factor in his injury, as some have already suggested?
Nikos, I am incapable of evaluating further based on 3 WC games and 1 quarther against Mobley. I can't answer your question more than I already did. I will later in the year if you remind me. But note, there is a reason why I coined the phrase "Dreamcasting" on this BBS; it is because I hate speculating. I love scouting, but I try to be honest with myself on knowing when I don't know. I've been wrong way too many times in the late 80s and early 90s to not be wary of my own excitement for potential. That said, I am confident in saying that I don't understand how anyone could rate Ginobili as a ROY candidate.
There are many guys that have a shot at ROY: Ming, Gino, Dunleavy, Butler, Williams, Wagner. They have a shot because all of them will be a big part of their teams. Getting ROY doesn't necessarily translate into having the potential of being a superstar. It has more to do with how much you are used and how well you respond to the challenge.
the newbie will be checking back in at mid-season to compliment HP, the GM's GM, on his astute read on Manu's talent. Since you won't commit to points, assits, steals and the like, we'll all assume you'll be right. btw Good to see the Rockets back on track. Texas triangle is back. <B>CRUSH THE LAKERS</B>
Easy, Why does everyone keep changing the subject. I did not say ROYs will be superstars. I said Gino will not be regarded as a star, and *quick* name me the last ROY who didn't last his an uninjured career being regarded as anything less that a star...I did not say superstar. Of course, the best answer is Mike Miller, but that is also regarded as the worst draft in a decade. striker, You can shut up now about scouting me scouting Gino, until you show up with your own scouting report of Gino. At least I said something "he will not be a star"...and no one else in this entire thread has <i>"commited to points, assits, steals and the like, we'll all assume you'll be right" </i> So, as you say, "you all must be right. ...next
One last question. If Mobley was tearing this new hole in Manu so badly how come the two times Manu subed in the Spurs tore into big Rockets leads?
How in the world can ANYONE, whether it be a sports writer, NBA expert or Joe Fan, say logically that a second round pick, who has never played one game in the US, and is coming to a team that is already an established contender, is a ROY candidate????? If he was that well equipped to make so much of an impact on a team like the Spurs, and as a result, win ROY, why was he drafted so low????
What's up with all these Manu homers on a frickin Rockets board. boo-hoo, some people don't think he's a ROY candidate or star material. WTF? Stars have something that sets them apart from other ho-hum players. Manu hasn't shown that yet. If penetration is his forte, he's going to have to prove he can do it on the NBA level, cuz it's a whole different speed and DEFENSE than anything he is accustomed to. That being said, he could still be a great role-player, which would be a steal for the price the Spurs paid to get him. And don't discount great role-players. Every championship for as far back as I can remember had plenty of great role-players. but serious ROY candidate? In the same year as Gooden, Jay Williams, Wagner, Butler, Mike Dunleavy? Please.
The pro-Ginobli buzz started builiding this summer on NBA dish and just spilled over here recently. I can't wait till the Mehmet Okur groundswell or the Nenad Kristic fanclub shows up here.... ...but owing to recent trades and such, I think that the Mengke Bateer Anti-Defamation league will probably be the first to make an appearance.
The problem is that Bird and Mullen were great shooters and were pretty darn tall for their positions. So those are two other things Gino doesn't have. If you're a 2 in the NBA and can't shoot worth a lick from the outside, you better be fast and athletic.
Just when I thout it was safe to venture into CC.net... HeyPartner makes a judge of talent on a players first game in the NBA coming off a 1 month layoff due to an ankle injury....please....I am sure he will have the same opinion of Yao if he does not tear it up his first 17 mins of playing time
After deliberating on the evidence herein, I hereby pronouce him: Manu Cantguardmobli from now until perpetuity!
<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by MemphisX HeyPartner makes a judge of talent on a players first game in the NBA coming off a 1 month layoff due to an ankle injury....please....<hr></blockquote> So, let me get this straight, Mr VancouverX. You think Ginobili has a better chance of getting ROY over Gooden???? ...next.
I could only think of one person after reading all of these posts... heypartner: clutchcity.net's official post nazi....No post for you!
Because the Spurs drafted him after the '99 season - when he was raw talent, and before the success of recent Euros entering the league...and have held his rights since then. Since then he has won Euro Finals MVP twice, and the Italian league MVP. Also, although he hasn't shown it at the WC's or in the preseason game, he holds the Euro record for most 3's cosecutively - 10. Again a shorter line, but apparently he does have some range, and a 42" vertical. Also averaged 4 steals a game. If he would have been available in this years draft, he would have been lottery. THAT is why he is mentioned as a ROY candidate. Also, since he is playing on a contender, and if he starts (which I honestly think he might not do this year - but that gets WAY too far into Spurs material for this board) he could get more air-time than other candidates.
HeyPisser is in mid-season form. He starts a thread about Cat and keeps it going for 5 pages. (at this point )
what annoys me more than anything is how blindly fanatical spurs fans tend to be about their player. no room for objectivity or criticism of their players, nope! i would say it's a homer thing, but it isn't. you can talk to the most homerific rocket fan (probably ZRB) and even he will give you some negatives about his team. but a spurs fan? nope! ginobili is a ROY candidate, despite not having a consistent jump shot on a team that runs a post offense and needs jump shooters to relieve pressure on tim duncan. but nooo! gino will be able to penetrate and score with the spurs, right? "jesus" parker? hands down the best rookie in the league last year according to sean elliott. according to spurs' fans, he's a future perenial allstar in the western conference. somehow they forget that francis, bibby, dre miller and baron davis all have a better chance of being western allstars than jesus. and those are just the point guards! nevermind the shooting guards... ginobili? bah! as long as he can't consistently bang down the long range bomb, defenses will sag off of him...thus negating his "lightening quick first step" predictions? ginobili will be - at best - a poor man's sarunas marciullonis (sp).
btw: this reminds me. Cuttino Mobley shut down Joe Johnson last night. Joe could not drive past him either....and tried. Cuttino asked me to type the following for him: "...next"
101 6 7: Some free advice -- don't waste your time here. There is a very vocal group on this board that hates the Spurs, and are unable to give objective thought on anything Spur-related. The fact that you've been personally attacked on multiple occasions in this thread while being nothing but respectful should be a good indicator. Spur fans are just not welcome here for whatever reason. Where else would you see a 5-page long thread dedicated to proclaiming a Spur rookie bench player as a "bust" after his first ever game in the league? It's almost funny if it weren't so pathetic.
