7.2 RPG is actually better then 6.5 - it's a whole other digit higher!! I think MoT is one of the worst rebouders going around in a big man position. There's no hope for him to improve in that department. Don't hope for it. It's not going to happen. It's like suggesting that Fizer would be a star! KT shows heart, he gets to the boards; I know that his 7.2 isn't that much more than Mo's 6.5 - but it was achieved in less minutes then Mo took to rack up his career high rebounding statisitics (in a contract year if that means anything!). This season Kenny is up to 7.3 in only 28 minutes of action. His worst season saw him only get 5.6 per game. That's a mark that MoT has only ever topped once. There's good evidence that KT is a good rebounder, and no doubt that a far better one than MoT ever has been or ever will be! Don't know 'bout a 'raging bull', but certainly an accomplished rebounder.
MManal, I love your analysis of the MoT vs KT discussion. I've been echoing the same things for ages, but you put it into a few great posts. Another way to look at all this: MoT is more valuable to our team than KT is. Why is KT starting over Rice? Because Rice is probably, so far this season, the worst Small Forward in the league. It's no accomplishment for KT to start over Rice. Why is Griffin starting over MoT? Because MoT is still shaking off the rust. I really don't see KT making a positive difference to our record. If anything, we'll lose out at some point because he's worried (rightfully so) about his contract. I don't know how much simpler I can make it look. I feel the Rockets with Mo and without Kenny are just a better team than the Rockets with Kenny and without Mo. It's just painfully obvious that KT is only here for insurance this season. As soon as Mo is back to 100%, T-Mo and Boki get healthy, KT is more valuable in a trade than as a roster player to us. Like I've said before though. It's not that I think KT's a bad player. It would just be in everybody's interest if he were traded. Better for him, better for us, better for our development, better for our record.
What ever you want to believe, MManal. You seem more intent on arguing this point claiming I think Mo sucks than talking basketball. Search two yrs ago. You will never find me participating negatively in any Mo Sucks threads...that would have been my time to do it...Riiiiiiiiiight. I never came anywhere close to saying he is "zero" in all other aspects. I said he is a soft defender and is not a rebounder in the league of most power forwards. Big 6'9 players will get 4 rpg without even trying, (they get freebies from missed free throws for starters). I have also said he is more than just a shooter and scorer. I'm on record saying many times he's a good passer in the right system. When I say he can "focus on offense" as Mr Instant Offense, that means he doesn't have to worry about 1st quarter matchups that require a defensive focus in our new season. He can go hard at players without worrying about foul trouble. We don't need 36 minutes from him. I never said he is zero. And when you compare my statements to ones above that say, "Mo does everything that Kenny doesn't do," you can see who is trying to talk basketball versus propping up pet players with exaggeration. speaking of which MManal, Maurice Taylor said after the Lakers game that Rick Fox guarding him allowed him to get off, and that he hopes he can reach the level of play of 2 yrs ago. It doesn't sound like Maurice agrees with you concerning some new low post power game where he'll leave the face-up game behind him. Mo will be facing up just like 2yrs ago, and he will hold the ball and study the defense or shoot when the doubles don't come, just like 2yrs ago. I think you are exaggerating. As for you question about Kenny being more than an adequate rebounder, first off, he is noticeably better than Maurice. Second, the team is a better rebounding team with him at the 3 and Griff at the 4. That is formidable rebounding frontcourt tandem. Thirdly, eliminating Kenny's first two games back from injury, he is rebounding at 9 rpg and has led the team 3 of those games. Kenny has a good chance of being a top 5 SF rebounder in under 30 minutes. This is not a Kenny vs Mo thing. Kenny, Mo and Eddie can all get around 25-30 minutes, while we lower Rice and Moochies minutes.
This is probably the last post Im going to make on this for a while, but I just want to clarify two things. 1. The same knocks that are being mentioned about Mo in this thread are the same knocks as 2 yrs ago. Cant rebound, cant defend, cant go into the low post. This would basically mean that Mo has improved zero since then. Mo's comments about getting back to his level of two yrs ago have more to do with rhythm, timing etc than anything else. Mo discussed how before he tore his achilles, he had been working real hard to improve the weak points of his game, and it is starting to show. During this past summer, Mo also worked very hard on his game. Mo did very similar stuff against Tyrone Hill that he did against Rick Fox and Amare Stoudamire. He just looks a whole lot more aggressive out there. That jump hook in the paint is here to stay. I will also go on record as saying that if Mo gets atleast 28 MPG this season, he will average atleast 7 RPG. 2. I am not a KT hater. I really respect the hustle and desire that he brings to the game and how he has worked every offseason on improving his body. However, this whole talk that KT is such a great rebounder is way off base. Kenny received almost 35 MPG last yr and averaged 7.2 RPG, thats not very good, thats adequate. Also, looking at a handful of games and saying "Well KT averaged 9 RPG over that stretch" is even lamer. Lets see what he can do over a whole season, last yr he didnt prove anything great. Mo had plenty of rebounding games in the 8-10 range during the second half of his last season with the Rockets. Funny how that is completely ignored.
My take on this whole Mo vs. Taylor vs Griffin is that Mo should start. The reason he is not starting is because he is getting back from an injury and rudy is taking it slow with him. He will start this season and it will not be because of an injury in my opinion. It will be because he is the best option at PF. I think all of our PF can start and produce for the Rox but I think Mo is the best fit for starting. The offense has run better with Mo in the game and his passing has impressed me as well and he doesnt hog the ball and knows what to do with the ball. Eddie would probably be the best for finishing, especially in a close game where we might need defense. For those of you that have said the KT has had similar numbers as Mo did his first year, remember Steve was gone 20+ games last year so naturally KTs numbers are gonna be higher. I think KT is better than average role player and a hustler. I just hate it when he holds the ball at the top of the key for 10 secs trying to fake his man out and then settle for a jumpshot that clangs the rim or he blows a layup and then screams ahhhhhhh. KT definitely has the best footwork of the 3 and when his on he can bring it and he does seem hungrier for the rebound out of the 3. Eddie needs to put on about 20 pounds and develop an inside game and he will be alright. He also needs to learn how to dribble I think he will be the PF our our future. Has anyone seen Eddie take more than 3 dribbles during a game? He is pretty predictable too, either the 3point shot our that turnaround jumper. Tell you what though this is a good situation to have cause it says we have a deep team. One last thing, another reason I think Mo isnt starting is because he has been off for so long and coming back from an injury. Same with Rice and the same with Cato. Why didnt Cato get to play last game?
I could have sworn i saw Mo successfully post up Robert Horry, one of the best post defenders in the game. In Kenny's defense, that midrange jumper looked very good in the preseason, before he fractured his thumb.
Based on the current rotations, I absolutely love what Rudy is doing. I think Griffin is doing fine as a starter, and Kenny is our best defender in the starting lineup. Mo can't play SF, Griffin can't play SF, and I like Rice/Hawkins coming off the bench. Mo coming off the bench is instant offense, and him coming in as a reserve makes me think that Steve and Mobley will have an easier time passing the ball into the post to him because he wont' be getting as many minutes, so they want him to maximize his time. Also, based on the chemistry that MoTay and Yao are developing, I want Taylor's time on the court to coincide with Yao's as often as possible. Since Yao is not starting, I think that Mo should be brought in around the time that Ming is. The current rotation that Rudy has going seems very effective to me, and as the players get more and more comfortable with each other, the offense will flow better and work more efficiently. It will be very interesting to see where Terence Morris fits into all of this when he comes back.
Mo deserves more touches and PT. It seems like whenever he gets the ball, something good always happens. He is definetly our best offensive forward.
MManal, you cannot say that Mo's jump hook is new and here to stay, when I recall him always having it. It is not really any nothing new. I do not subscribe to the idea that Mo had no low-post game 2yrs ago, just because he shoots outside as well. He is a well-rounded offensive player. Always has been. I could argue that if it weren't for his repeated early foul trouble, Maurice could approach 20ppg on the right team. We are in agreement with Mo's offense; we just don't agree with him improving his rebounding. My question is why do you foresee all this improvement in Mo, but quickly dismiss any idea of KT's rebounding improving, especially when you just flat out say Mo's will....especially, since Mo is really just a 5+ rebounder, and you are using a few small games to measure Mo, but not giving the same to KT. KT is the most drastically changed player in terms of physique. He is faster and quicker off his feet than before, and I think he is stronger too. The physical improvement alone, plus the fact he'll be rebounding against SFs, gives me a pretty solid base of reason to say he will be Top 5 for his position given 25-30mpg. Reread your last post. The extrapolations from little more than quotes, Summer rumors, and 3 games has you saying Mo is a changed man and able to do things rebounding wise that he's never done. But, you are not given that same positive outlook to Kenny. You are being overly fair to one, but not the other...all based on your speculation, which seems to counter Kenny's improvements in physique and his stat improvement to date. MManal, you sound like you are in defense of Maurice. I am not the one to criticize him. But I am still seeing him give up ground, and until the stops, I don't expect 6 rpg from him, much less 7-8 rpg. That is way too much speculations for me.
HP, Im not going to debate this any further b/c it is starting to go in circles. I stand by my prediction that Mo will average atleast 7 RPG if given atleast 28 MPG. What do you consider KT can do if given similar PT? This top 5 at his position rebounding is something KT will get even he doesnt improve much in his rebounding this season. There just really arent that many great SF rebounders in the league. Shawn Marion and Donyell Marshall are really good but then there are bunch of decent rebounders ie. Lamar Odom (when healthy), Grant Hill, Jamal Mashburn, etc. The likes of Garnett, Dirk, Gasol and such play the PF position now. Btw, Mo Taylor did not have this jump hook in the paint 2 yrs ago. I dont know where you came up with that. Bill and Calvin were discussing during the Cavs broadcast how Mo worked on that while he was out and added it to his game.
You don't remember Mo coming across the lane for a jump hook quite often. What I can't actually recall is a left-hander turning baseline that Kenny does and that Mo showed Fox. Usually, Mo would spin baseline with the idea to go to the rim (defender overplaying the lane), and spin towards the lane to do the baby hook or moving baby J.
HP, You didnt answer the question, what rebounding total do you expect out of KT since you claim that he will improve? I am saying if Mo gets atleast 28 MPG, he will get atleast 7 RPG.
sorry, I thought you wanted to end the conversation regarding rebounding stats. I'm claiming that he is already showing improvement. Note that even if he does get only 7.2 on 28 mpg, that is improvement over last year and is still outstanding for a small forward, because they play with PFs and Cs vying for the same rebounds. For instance, when Kenny, EG and Cato are in, does Kenny get the freebie spot on FTs? I'm sure that Kenny's minutes are going to be tied directly to his success at defense and rebounding (just like Cato), and he likely has been told that. I don't see Kenny failing at this sense he knows that is why he gets the minutes., and I don't see anyone succeeding ahead of him at the small forward spot in this regard.
I think Mo has looked much different offensively this year than pre-injury. While it could be due to weaker inside teams, he is taking it inside a far greater amount of the time. I remember him showing that hook 2 years ago, but he never went to it with any regularity compared to now. 2 years ago, Mo scored primarily with his jumper which was why his 49% FG% was pretty amazing. Now, he's going inside, and using the mid range shot to keep defenses honest. We only have a small sample, but I'd tend to think it'll be a continuing trend. I also tend to think that high rebound numbers for KT more or less comes somewhat at the expense of Eddie's rebound totals. Not that that's necessarily bad, but when Cato is in there, it's just not possible for everyone to get huge rebound totals when you have a center averaging > 10, one of the best rebounding guards, and an excellent rebounding SF like Kenny. I would also mention that rebounding has not been a problem for this team- we're 11th in the league in rebounding, and our opponents average the 7th fewest. Both above average. It's part of the result of starting KT at SF, but also why MoT's rebounding is not that big of an issue. Again, more time will give us a clearer perspective of this.
