We need to add scoring punch (multi threat guys who hit the 3 and can drive/finish) and athleticism. These guys would be my targets with the MLE. Sorry for creating a new thread, but too many ones are getting sidetracked with unrealistic trades or completely blowing up the team. I think we saw enough with Tmac-Yao-Battier to see we want to add more talent to them. If you have completely wilder plans (changing multiple starters, trading Yao/Tmac), please find a more appropriate thread. However thoughts about these guys or other viable MLE level FAs (for example, Walton/Outlaw/Stack/Atkins--though I don't like them quite as well for different reasons) are welcome. Initially I am leaning on targeting Williams 1st, since he is unrestricted, young (24) and addresses one of our two weakest positions. Whether he is realistic at all depends on his wanting out of Milw and going to a good team in need of a point (Hou, Mia, Denver), if he does strongly, he is viable. Full 4-5 year MLE with player option on the last year might do it. No issues with having to work with Milw unless it is under Mo W leverage saying to them he is leaving one way or the other so they might as well facilitate it (Rafer + pick?). I also am interested in forwards, though no true PF or PF/C who would bring athleticism, smarts and scoring punch would be realistic at all with an MLE (even if there are some FAs--not sure). Nonetheless adding a 2nd PF/SF tweener forward or a big SG is one way to add scoring punch and team athleticism around Yao. Thus I am interested in as follows: Nocioni. Since the Bulls are so deep in younger (AN will be 28 next season) and more upside forwards (SFs and PFs) and swingmen I wonder if he might not be matched for a full MLE with player option and trade kicker. Or alternately perhaps we can get close to an offer sheet than could negotiate a S&T giving up our 1st rounder. Nocioni can shoot, rebound (really well for his size) and plays very aggressive. Him or Battier would get more work at the PF than the did this year--and that would make our SG through PF spots a lot more mobile and offensively potent than what we had before. Chi I expect to maybe be an early big trade looker giving them being exposed for having a lack of an interior option at the elite level vs Detroit. Maybe we can get to Nocioni early offering a starting spot on a contender, and perhaps Chi does not want to match to tie down their flexibility when they have bigger fish to fry (KG, Gasol?). If the Mo Williams thing doesn't look likley I'd go here quick. I also am interested in Barnes and Pietrus, 27 and 25 respectively. I really don't see GS committing big money to both given their depth in related positions and salary situation. Both have far more plusses than minus, Pietrus would bring freaky athleticism and provide an excellent individual defender to the 3/2 (allowing Tmac to further conserve on the defensive side), Barnes has a little more size (like Nocioni, play some 4 for us) and is headier. Both also are very solid at the off the ball 3 spot up. I have a hunch Nelson likes Barnes better, but he is unrestricted. I rate both just below Mo W and Nocioni but both would be most if not all of the MLE (start at 3-4 mil year min?). Barnes is really playing well versus multiple opponents and multiple phases of his game--I don't think he is just a system or 1 hit wonder player, but that is always a risk. If we got a tweener SF/PF like Nocioni/Barnes I would expect this guy, Battier and Hayes (versus the power 4s) to gobble up the 4 minutes. (Hayes is a nobrainer to resign--he is more valuable to us than other teams and is an RFA--I would expect a multiyear contract starting in the 2 mil range to happen). Howard would primarily be used as a back-up C, with maybe very spot duty at the 4. No more of playing him with Yao, and now we get 3 range and off the dribble skills out of the 4 spot and quickness there. If we got Pietrus (probably my least fav choice of these, but not bad) than I would really want Battier hitting the weight room and practice competing with 4s defensively because that is going to be his primary job. He will have a much longer and more effective career if he pulls a Robert Horry (who used to be a twig SF as a young player). I would want to start Pietrus-Tmac-Battier in the 2-3-4 with Tmac taking the easiest defensive assignment. Again Hayes is there when Battier is overmatched in lower body strength (Duncan, Boozer, Brand) or you just have Yao guard this guy with Battier taking the Okurs, Elson, Horry, etc. The more I think about it I might even prefer Nocioni and Barnes first, than Mo W or Pietrus. Rafer is actually a better PG than Chuck is as a PF. Further, Chuck might be more effective back-up/alternative to a smallish athletic/shooting PF (Nocioni/Barnes) than Rafer as a back-up to say Mo W. The LLE might also bring support for Rafer (Diener, Hart, Smush, Blake) or we give VS/JL3/Head another year to press Rafer for minutes at the PG. That is where I am at.
I suspect Mo Williams will ask for more than MLE. All these guys wouldnt make us a contender next year IMO. We are Reshard Lewis away from contending. Make it happen, Les.
I don't think we'll really have a shot at any of these guys except maybe Barnes because teams may be scared of him being a system guy. Although that didn't stop the Clipps from biting on Tim Thomas now, did it(could he possibly be the biggest scam artist in the history of the league)? In my dreamworld we land Pietrus for the MLE. Trade Battier and Head for a 4(don't think he can hang there). Trade Howard for James. Draft another sg/sf. bam. Yao / Tsak some traded for 4 / Hayes TMac Pietrus/ draft pick MJ / Vspan / be here next year alston.
A lineup of Battier, Barnes/Pietrus, Mcgrady, and Alston would not be a significant improvement offensively over what we have, especially not enough to compensate for the rebounding and defense we lose with Battier playing at the 4. We'd still have not playmaker outside of Mcgrady. Barnes, Nocioni, and Pietrus would be good additions to the team only if you intend to have them replace Battier, so you can move him for a playmaking point guard. Ime Udoka would also be a good addition to the team, and would probably come much cheaper than those 3.
Probable, but then we also know what happened with Mike James of his Toronto year, and Swift in Memphis. Perhaps a S&T could also be worked out--like Walker with Miami from Boston. It mostly strongly depends on if he wants to leave Milwalkee and go to a playoff team with an open PG spot--and how persuasive he is if he tells Milw he is leaving one way or the other. Him being unrestricted provides leverage--otherwise this would be a nochancer. But what we do with the MLE has little bearing on Lewis. To get Lewis we would have to start with Battier and picks at the least. That won't effect the availability of the MLE, merely that we wouldn't target another PF/SF tweener with it (Nocioni/Barnes). I see IC2000 with his typical VI2000 response.
if we get rashard w/o trading anybody, we WILL win the whole thing. tmac can play PG and make himself another legacy by coming the next magic. PG - MAC SG - BATTIER SF - LEWIS PF - HAYES C - YAO damn but STOP DREAMING
I really, really doubt Barnes get more than an MLE. He really only has one good year (at age 27) and an excellent playoff run. I don't even think GS would pay him over 5 mil year giving their other committments. I think GS will probably choose among Barnes and Pietrus and the other moves teams for most or all the MLE. MoW and Nocioni are longer shots I agree. But I could see S&T possibilities because Chi has younger/more upside forwards in his position and MoW is unrestricted and thus can call lots of shots.
Barnes can create his own shot more so than the others which I like. It is also possible that they just move TMac to the point, draft or sign a shooting guard that can defend other pg's and go from there with Rafer backing up TMac. It's not like TMac isn't the point in function on the team already anyway much of the time. I'd like to see us persue Javaris Crittenton as an option via the draft for PG help. A 6'5 athletic penetrating PG who can handle would go along way coming off the bench. Career at Georgia Tech:
I'm not a big 'Trade Battier' proponent, but I recognize he may be our one strong asset. The key to any fantasy trade proposal on the BBS is not recognizing the Rockets' needs, but recognizing what the Rockets have that other teams need. If you look at Denver, they have serious money problems. Marcus Camby just won "Defensive Player of the Year", so I doubt they get rid of him ... but they can't trade Kenyon Martin I don't think, and they are counting on him returning. They also are high on Nene, I'm guessing. Denver desperately needs outside shooting ... does Battier + Luther get you Camby? Would we do that? Nuggets field Iverson, Anthony, Battier, Martin and Nene. I don't know... just throwing it out there. Camby is 33 years old. If you re-signed Hayes that would make Juwan expendable. He's not super tradeable, so if you could get someone you could use with a similar contract that another team also wants to unload, you could make it happen. Juwan for Mike James could be a good fit (not sure MIN would do that). You still haven't used your MLE or your draft pick, and you'd have a Yao/Camby/McGrady frontline (if T-Mac moved to the 3) with James/Rafer manning the point. You got older, but tougher and possibly better. I'd love Rashard Lewis, but financially there has to be zero chance. No toughness in the paint at all, but if you got Mike James and went with James, T-Mac, Battier, Rashard and Yao, who do you double off of? I'm just rambling... hard to say who is the right fit here until we know the coach. Someone may come in, devise a scheme where the point guard never has to penetrate or shoot the ball and Rafer suddenly looks like a good fit
This is my thought. I don't think basketball is a team's sport, it is superstars' game. Look how deep Utah is and how hard they had to fight with us when our yao was at his 50% and our bench was at their 20%. Rockets are not elite enough is due to our superstars did not fulfill their potential. They did not do well at what they can do. I mean we just need the right pieces for them to thrive such as a right PG, PF, coach...... If both of our superstarts are clicking, Rockets should never be a boring mediocre team. Conclusion: Rockets should be built around Yao and TMAC. Any move should be on the purpose of benifiting the two superstars. By this standard, the Battier trade is a great and sucessful one. Gay has no business with Yao or TMAC's game. I don't care JVG's coaching on offense or defense, player issues.... He has to find a way to fire up Yao and TMAC, both are 'soft' and 'nice'. JVG is not the right coach for them. This is the only thing I don't like about JVG. The Alston trade is a suspicious one. I only know Sura was a better fit. Alston does not have the "offensive skills" that TMAC and Yao need most. I'd say we need, first: a PG who is the elite version of VSPAN; second, a PF with elite rebounding skills. Mo W is my pick so far. My dream is Bibby.
I've been thinking (dreaming) Camby at the 4 as well, or a Camby-esque player (does one exist?). Denver has to bite the bullet or dump for cap space. You never know. Speaking of power forwards...Magloire appears to be leaving Portalnd via trade this offseason. Juwan + for him?
The most Nocioni is going to get would be the full MLE, because some team will talk itself into thinking it's a good idea. Sadly, for me, the Bulls will likely match the full MLE, even if it means giving Deng (probably not) or Gordon (likely) the raw end of the deal later on. If a team signs Noc, who I alternately love and hate (more dislike, though I appreciate his effort, truly), they have to understand that he is NOT a small forward. Not even in a pinch. Well, only if guarded by Antoine Walker. That is just about the only SF pairing I have seen him do well with since entering the league. He's a PF, and a good one if that shot is falling and he's not getting stripped on his way to the basket. And the Bulls aren't in any KG/Pau/O'Neal sweepstakes. The only contracts they have to offer are Ben Wallace's (nobody is taking that) and Hinrich's BYC deal, which is tough as hell to move. After that, they'll have hopefully Deng and Gordon's BYC deals to move, which is just as tough. They went out of the sweepstates once the trade deadline passed and PJ Brown stayed in Chicago. The only way they could get anything would be a massive sign-and-trade involving Nocioni, but that's a massive, massive pipe dream that I really shouldn't have even brought up due to its pointlessness.
We are missing a piece that will make Yao, Tmac and himself twice as better. Too bad, Yao and Tmac are not enough to contend.
Camby would be a mistake I think. Another aging player who is only going to decline. Most champions fail in the playoffs several times before they win. Remember it was Olajuwon's 10th year before he won a title. Every one wants to win now, but unfortunately you can't bring in many new impact players with the salary cap restrictions. All you can get is Bonzi Wells or Stromile Swift or Derek Anderson type players. Maybe JVG failed in using those guys, but then again there is a reason their former teams let them go. That means we need some good drafts and luck to contend, much like when we got Cassel and Horry prior to our last 2 titles. Then we need some free agent deals to pan out like Mario Ellie did. Maybe Jerry Stackhouse? Even then we were huge under dogs when we won it all.
If we have any shot at getting Rashard then we'd have to move Juwon to someone with alot of cap like Chicago...they could use a 4 with an outside shot. Then we'd need the salary cap to rise about $4 million (not going to happen). As far as the draft goes...we should probablly trade our first rounder to Portland for a pair of second rounders and pick up Sean Williams and Yao's boy Sun Yue. But that's my opinion.
That denver scenario is a good one. I don't know if I would do it, but it's certainly interesting. One team that I think would be good trading partners for a 4 would be Indianna. We don't have a chance at Oneal, but Murphy, Diogu, and Granger are all interesting players to varying degrees. They also have some guards with character concerns that they'll probly want to move(Daniels, Tinsley), and lo and behold, Battier is the poster boy for squeeky clean character.
